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-   -   Power Systems - Discussion (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=24622)

ozace 12-26-2006 03:56 PM

Power Systems - Discussion
 
We have come to the time where many more are pushing up the power levels.

I think it would be helpful for the support team to make a sticky up top for a thread detailing what setups are in use and how they perform.

I know Will is playing with neu motors, Ticidy is pioneering in this area as well.

It wont be long until the forum is swamped with questions about what goes with what. Lets make a list for all to see.

back in september 06 i was running a 1515 (1100kv) neu motor on 10s with a Castle HV 85 (10t pinion). Power was adequate (as rolls royce would say) :twisted: :twisted:

I have since swapped to 1512 (1400kv) and 8s with a MGM comm pro 60-10-32 esc and a 11t stright pinion. I have been running this for a few months and power is good and weight is nice.

Russ McC 12-26-2006 04:30 PM

Boy that would be great, I have been thinking of trying a different 8 or 10 s power system and all the information is spread out through the forum, having it in one place would be great.

ozace 12-26-2006 04:46 PM

I figure Will has enough to do and so does Bob but Ticidy who is doing most of the work any way would be a great man for the job. :smokin:

ozace 12-26-2006 04:53 PM

I think at the least some guide lines should be included.

The way the stock gearing works out

6s lipo = motors in the 1600 -1800 kv range work
8s lipo = motors in the 1300-1500 kv range
10s lipo - motors in the 1000-1100kv rang

Finless 12-26-2006 11:55 PM

OK I will do this and make a STICKY for motor and pack testing

Matt (tickidytoc) You want forum support?

Bob

ozace 12-27-2006 12:06 AM

Bob/Matt please clean this thread up or start a new sticky just withthe stuff people need to know. It will make a great resource as people start looking for more power.

BTW, i just saw a vid of a trex600 Z-30, 10s 3300 cells. Mucho goodo for a little motor

http://www.rotarypower3.com/mhw/Trex...%20Lennert.wmv
(vid is 100+ meg.)

Taipan 12-27-2006 01:06 AM

Isn't 1100kv too high for 10S? Would need to run at 80% throttle or something to keep at decent headspeed? Thought the goal was to run at 100% or as close as as possible.

Ticidytoc 12-27-2006 01:08 AM

Sounds like its not too happy, At 2:26 into the flight when he gets into the tictocs its falling off fast.

I wonder how hot this thing got during that flight. Whew! Im guessing this was the Z30-800, what pinion, 15T ? I flew the Z50 on a 15T and it got hot, hotter than I'd like to see.

I was thinking this motor would be a better fit for the 550 blades. I havent gotten around to trying it yet, but its on the list.

Nice flight Phil.

Taipan 12-27-2006 01:27 AM

I've seen someone else's 600 with a Z-30 I think & it was way too hot after flying.

Ordered Neu 1915/1Y 684Kv with 13T Mikado pinion. Got 10S FP 3700 packs waiting to be used and CC85HV on the way. Can't wait to fly this!

Finless 12-27-2006 01:29 AM

WOW man... sorry to say the tictocs made the power look SICK... I dont know but that was bogging BAD and I am sure the motor was not happy nor the packs! I am with Matt here.... Doesnt sound like that was a well matched power system!

Bob

ozace 12-27-2006 02:04 AM

Gee i will have to rewatch it. I thought for a light weight setup it looked OK.

It was never going to be in the same league as the 1515 or 1915

Ticidytoc 12-27-2006 02:49 AM

I understand that Adam. The problem is if the motor is being pushed too hard, then where is the longevity ? Sure it may kick some butt, it looks good out of the gate, but it also sounds like something is giving up too soon.

Personally I think hes trying to fly that like its got a 1515 pullin like hell in it, it doesnt.

My .02.

Finless 12-27-2006 03:01 AM

Quote:

Personally I think hes trying to fly that like its got a 1515 pullin like hell in it, it doesnt.
Agree based on the video....

Bob

Mercuriell 12-27-2006 03:54 AM

Impressive filming and flamboyant flying - motor did sound like a dentist drill though - enough to give me toothache !

Phil.L 12-27-2006 06:07 AM

Hey guys,

just a quick rundown......
Due to the fact im still waiting for the Align 600XL motor, and having been sent the new CF Align 600mm blades and other upgrades from ALign, the Trex needed to be flown and tested out as hard as i could push it.

With maxing everything out, running nearly 15 degrees pitch, and loading it up to the max/ jamming the sticks in the corners, everything held up fine. Since it was also quite windy, about a 20 knot afternoon seebreeze, you tend to use crap loads more power especialy with such a light setup. Most vids ive seen were made in very little wind, and using alot more collective managment, where in this vid the heli needed to be loaded up and pushed hard. And this is exactly what ive done.

The Align CF blades are great, and the Flightpower packs are truely awesome especialy in the high temps we have here in summer.

A few things I thought about coming from a 3d perspective;
The Trex 600 feels very nice in the air even with the 6s setup. Sticking big heavy setups into it destroys its collective authority, Even when Alan or Danny Szabo ( cant remember which) flew a 10s setup using a big hacker outrunner, and big packs, even though it had more power, from memory his comment was something like he prefers the feel of the lighter 6s setup, as it flies so much better, and I fully agree with him there. The rtf weight of the trex 600 in the vid is 3.34 KG, fully rigged, with a 611 gyro.

While I believe there is no perfect setup, everyone likes to fly slightly differently, many are perfectly happy with the stock Align setup, which is more than enough for them, some dont mind adding the weight for a heavier 10s setup, spending the extra $$, and getting longer runtime, while im waiting for the new 600XL Align motor, i opted for something inbetween.

-New Formulation Flightpower 3300mah 10s "Brick"
-Z30 800KV -13 tooth pinion- (280g)
-Jazz 55-10-32 controller.
-flight time on average 5min of hard 3d
RTF weight 3.34kg

cheers
phil

Ticidytoc 12-27-2006 09:44 AM

Well your pitch range explains a lot. WoW almost 15. Poor little Zpower.

That also explains why it fell off so hard a 2:32 when you pumped it.

Looks like the Z30 has potential, good thing its a 13T.

How much is going back into the 3300 after 5 minutes of that kind of 3D ? :wink:

WillJames 12-27-2006 11:22 AM

Quote:

Isn't 1100kv too high for 10S? Would need to run at 80% throttle or something to keep at decent headspeed? Thought the goal was to run at 100% or as close as as possible.
It depends on the ESC and if you want to run GOV mode or not. For instance the CC HV-85 you want to gear for 75-85% Throttle Curve Headspeed you want in fixed endpoint mode and then in GOV it will do within about 200RPM HS either way you can finetune with the GOV software. In other words, the ESC needs some % of Throttle left or "Head Room" for the GOV to work well on most from what I have heard ESC's.

On the Jeti Spin, I hear that if you gear right, you can just use the programmer box and enter the RPM you want. It then holds it fairly well to well depending on who you talk to and if they got the gearing in the sweet spot I guess.

On the Jazz 55, it seems very forgiving in GOV mode and people seem to try to gear for 55 to 85% in Heli (GOV - 4 beep) mode. You see people running the Jazz in all kinds of situations that probably should not work, but a lot of them do. ;)



That is the beauty of an 8s setup. .05 pound difference in pack weight. Phil likes to SMACK IT! WOW! :shock:

With the new Rotorworkz frames, being slightly sub 7 on 8s is gonna RULE and does RULE as evidenced by some vids of late. Can't wait to see how the 1515 does in it on 10T Pinion.

Ticidytoc 12-27-2006 12:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Its a heck of a flight. I don't want to take away from that. I like it.

With almost 15 deg of pitch you cant keep it there long. I found if you use it quick, it gives the motor time to recover.

If you start falling out of a move, feed more pitch into it to keep it where you want it and the motor can't keep up, that is what you hear.

The video of the 550 I posted, the pitch is only 11/11 but yet it still moves. The motor is happier and so are the packs.

I have been too busy working on testing the Neu stuff I havent gotten around to the Z30 and the Orbits, once I do, I'm sure it will work just fine at a lower pitch range and some collective management. If it moves that well on a 7.3lb bird imagine the lighter setup. :twisted:

Yes, the lighter birds feel much better if you like that pop. I agree with Phil. If you can keep it light and still make the power, you are going to have one heck of a bird.

One other thing to keep an eye on. If your going to push the pitch range that far this is what starts happening. So get out your dremels and clean up the areas so the links wont bind. Keeps everything happy.

Good job Phil.

stevehonn 12-27-2006 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ticidytoc
One other thing to keep an eye on. If your going to push the pitch range that far this is what starts happening. So get out your dremels and clean up the areas so the links wont bind. Keeps everything happy.

I've had the same problem and as I couldn't get hold of a cyclic ring I've had to reduce the total throws on elevator & aileron, I probably nevery hit the problem in flight but got into a bad habit of pushing the stick into the corners when spooling down.

catfight 12-27-2006 05:38 PM

stevehonn,

The Spartan 2000i has an excellent digital cyclic ring - you might really like it -check it out.


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