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-   -   New Quantum motor on a 700E FBL ? (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=395102)

WBFAir 03-14-2012 09:12 AM

New Quantum motor on a 700E FBL ?
 
Hello all

I have a 700E all apart as I sent in my HeliJive for the update and by the way I built it, it had to come all apart to disconnect it from the motor.

Since it would be the best time and as well as it really needs to be done, I want to replace the stock motor before putting it back together.

Hands down my first and really about only perfect choice would be the Xera 4035 2.5y 480 but sadly Dave is not making any right now (nor seems to be selling/making any others) and as most would understand, there is no word on when he will and its just getting too close to the season to wait much longer so I have to make a move.

In looking over what can be gotten, I have come across these new Quantum motors that are supposed to be coming out by the end of the month.

http://www.quantummotors.com

From what I gather they are being made by the same company that made the Outrage motors which I gather were not held highly but supposedly, these are of a new design?

At any rate, in looking at the 4135-530Kv motor, aside from a little bit of a higher Kv, this motor looks almost the same spec wise as the Xera 480.

As well their bigger motor, the 4530-500 seems to be very eagerly awaiting its release by the Goblin guys and has been getting really good feedback reports on those helo's (and I think on the HeliJives) of their pre-production units.

As well I just had some Pm's with a guy using their smallest motor the 4125-560 on a 12s Fusion 50 with a Jive 80. And with using it for what he said was about a 100 flights so far, he is giving it great reports for both power and efficiency and states that he is not even running it in KSA mode.

Anyway, all remains to be seen but I thought I would make a post to see if anyone could have a look at the specs on the 4135-530 motor and tell me any thoughts they might have.

Especially any thoughts they might have to as to how it might run on a TRex 700E FBL helo with the goal in mind of the best balance of power and efficiency?

Thanks for any help.

PS, am really not making this post to look for or start a whole thing over other motors to use, so I hope things can be kept on just the point on the opinions of this motor and in relation to the questions I posed.

Thanks

NRPY 03-14-2012 11:28 AM

None of our opinions are going to be worth much at this point. I think you're just going to have to try it for yourself and see if it meets your needs. If it's close spec-wise to the motor you want, give it a shot.

sarah1097 03-14-2012 02:01 PM

It almost seems that the stock motor you have is better then the biggest quantum motor. here are the specs,
●Input voltage:DC11.1V-50.4V
●Max continuous current:90A/150A(5sec)
●Max output power:4000W/6600W(5sec)
●KV value:510KV
●Stator Arms:12
●Magnet Poles:10
●Dimension: spindle Φ6xΦ52x57.5mm
●Weight: 405g (prox.)
now the quantum 4530 motor has max power of 5000 watts, which is a 1100 less then the mx motor, same magnet poles, same stator arms, weight is higher on the quantum at 556
the max continuous amps is 125 amps but the mx is 150. i am curious why you would go this route? If you look at the kde direct motor for the same price as the quantum then there is huge difference. Here are the specs to the kde 700 xf 495 kv max output is 10000 watts, almost 4000 above the mx and 5000 above the quantum. weight is 670 efficiency is 92% and can handle up to 16 cell instead of 12. If you want some power, this would be the way to go. Also the max volts is 67.2.

WBFAir 03-14-2012 02:01 PM

Yeah, don't mean to place any undue load on anyone and for sure, it would all be taken as speculation.

Just thought I would check as I am hardly an expert to see if anyone after taking a look at the motor info might have some thoughts from knowing more about such things.

Or who knows, maybe they would pick up on something an say, because of xyz, that's not a good pick for this helo.

Thanks

WBFAir 03-14-2012 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah1097 (Post 3749551)
It almost seems that the stock motor you have is better then the biggest quantum motor. here are the specs,
●Input voltage[IMG]file:///C:/Users/WBF/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]C11.1V-50.4V
●Max continuous current:90A/150A(5sec)
●Max output power:4000W/6600W(5sec)
●KV value:510KV
●Stator Arms:12
●Magnet Poles:10
●Dimension: spindle Φ6xΦ52x57.5mm
●Weight: 405g (prox.)
now the quantum 4530 motor has max power of 5000 watts, which is a 1100 less then the mx motor, same magnet poles, same stator arms, weight is higher on the quantum at 556
the max continuous amps is 125 amps but the mx is 150. i am curious why you would go this route? If you look at the kde direct motor for the same price as the quantum then there is huge difference. Here are the specs to the kde 700 xf 495 kv max output is 10000 watts, almost 4000 above the mx and 5000 above the quantum. weight is 670 efficiency is 92% and can handle up to 16 cell instead of 12. If you want some power, this would be the way to go. Also the max volts is 67.2.

Thanks for the thoughts and research Sarah.

Actually perhaps to go over this in a bit more detail, for me I am probably looking for a motor for different reasons them most in that finding one with the absolute most power is not what I am looking for.

In the simplest of terms what I mean is I want to have power but basically its more about efficient balance of power via what I actually need and not wasting more in that you can put a 10000 watt motor in there but even if you fly it very conservatively, that motor is going to use more power then one with less wattage so all that is going to do is just run your packs down sooner and if you don't need that, why do it?

Also with those KDE's and I don't know about the Nue's but basically with the XF's they talk about being developed around the Castle Controllers and even those old Nue's are basically Castle knock offs if you look at them and I am not trying to start any fights here but with all that Castle has done to this hobby and is still doing is why I went with a Kontroniks controller in the first place as I have no desire to play those kinds of games with $2,500 worth of my property.

And it is basically known that the K's are much more demanding of a motor which I see as a good thing as it means that I can't just run some bad and inefficient motor through one.

But basically this means you do have to run something good and those Nue's have to be run in KSA mode from what I have read to which to me is a sign of issues although I don't know about the XF's, but at any rate, those are too much power consuming for what I want anyway.

Also note the motor I was looking at with not the top one but the middle of the pack which is listed at about $200.00 and so far as been reported as not even needing KSA mode.

rctazz 03-14-2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah1097 (Post 3749551)
It almost seems that the stock motor you have is better then the biggest quantum motor. here are the specs,
●Input voltage:DC11.1V-50.4V
●Max continuous current:90A/150A(5sec)
●Max output power:4000W/6600W(5sec)
●KV value:510KV
●Stator Arms:12
●Magnet Poles:10
●Dimension: spindle Φ6xΦ52x57.5mm
●Weight: 405g (prox.)
now the quantum 4530 motor has max power of 5000 watts, which is a 1100 less then the mx motor, same magnet poles, same stator arms, weight is higher on the quantum at 556
the max continuous amps is 125 amps but the mx is 150. i am curious why you would go this route? If you look at the kde direct motor for the same price as the quantum then there is huge difference. Here are the specs to the kde 700 xf 495 kv max output is 10000 watts, almost 4000 above the mx and 5000 above the quantum. weight is 670 efficiency is 92% and can handle up to 16 cell instead of 12. If you want some power, this would be the way to go. Also the max volts is 67.2.


Actually Sarah, The Max Continous Power of the 700MX is 4000 watts with a Peak power of 6600W. The Max continous power of the biggest Quantum motor, at 5000 watts, is 1000 watts MORE than the Align motor. They do not list the Peak power limitation but I bet it is on the order of 7000 to 9000 watts based on other motors in the class (KDE included). Even the might Scorpion 520LE lists a max continous power rating of 4450 watts with a peak of 9600 watts.

I am by no means advocating for the Quantum motors I only heard about them about 3 days ago, just saying the power ratings are in line with other motors in the class. There is only one motor I will get in the future (Actually two, one for each of my 90 size helis )

sarah1097 03-14-2012 04:20 PM

hmmm let me look at that.

WBFAir 03-14-2012 04:34 PM

Hello Sarah, hope in no way this is seeming like any form of conflict and I'm hardly the authority on such things, but if you research a lot of the spec's on motors that are reported in the field to actually have much more power and performance then the stock Align units, you will see that they all have rather lower numbers.

For instance a good listing to look at for the Xera's is one from ReadyHeli's pdf list here: https://readyheli.com/assets/images/...data_sheet.pdf which on this you will see many motors that are well under 4000 watts but all are known to have more power then a stock Align unit.

Why this is I can't really say and am even oddly saying this as it may seem contradictory to my original post, but it probably is a lot to do with who knows what anyone may use as the benchmark or for testing methods that they use to come up with things.

For instance I know from a lot of research one of the toughest things to research just by the numbers is servos as those numbers are all over the place and for instance I know Futabas are always listed way under the numbers that others give, but still the are known to perform much better in actual use.

So just going by the numbers alone can be a tough way to decided on what to use.

Anyway, hope that is of agreeable reply.

akamullen 03-14-2012 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WBFAir (Post 3749940)
Hello Sarah, hope in no way this is seeming like any form of conflict and I'm hardly the authority on such things, but if you research a lot of the spec's on motors that are reported in the field to actually have much more power and performance then the stock Align units, you will see that they all have rather lower numbers.

For instance a good listing to look at for the Xera's is one from ReadyHeli's pdf list here: https://readyheli.com/assets/images/...data_sheet.pdf which on this you will see many motors that are well under 4000 watts but all are known to have more power then a stock Align unit.

Why this is I can't really say and am even oddly saying this as it may seem contradictory to my original post, but it probably is a lot to do with who knows what anyone may use as the benchmark or for testing methods that they use to come up with things.



So just going by the numbers along can be a tough way to decided on what to use.

Anyway, hope that is of agreeable reply.

+1, cant always go by the specs, this goes for lipos as well. Testing differs from brand to brand. Best to get as many reports from users as you can then base your decision on actual user testimony instead of (Spec hype) or (user hype).

Motors and lipos are the toughest to gauge by specs alone. they can differ greatly from what you would expect.

sarah1097 03-15-2012 01:12 AM

yes i agree I had to find out the hard way and look like a retard. i finally spoke to cc on this and they also confirmed what ever one else said, the mx would not stand a chance in the same competition.

WBFAir 03-15-2012 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah1097 (Post 3751439)
yes i agree I had to find out the hard way and look like a retard. i finally spoke to cc on this and they also confirmed what ever one else said, the mx would not stand a chance in the same competition.

I wouldn't be that hard on yourself Sarah.

Remember, despite what some may act like, no one is born knowing everything and we all learn as we go a long.

Heck I've been doing tons of mechanical things my whole life and have many credits to my name and have had a ton of experiences that have taught me a lot and I still learn something new every day.

Important part is to keep an open mind and always keep asking.

Tough part in this hobby just as it is in so many other things is that while it is not everyone, there are a lot of people out there such as some vendors who will do or say anything to sell you their stuff and despite what token things they may do to not seem like it, really could care less what happens to you with it after they have your money. Funny part is too is that often those can be the biggest ones as that is sadly a good way to get that way.

Or aside from them, then there are those who have some personal issues like needing to sound like they know everything so that others will be impressed and think they are something and/or that will try to push you to some particular product or almost psychotically try to hide its flaws as they like it for what ever personal reasons they have and want to see it sell so that it will continue to be around for their needs despite what ever that may cost others.

So it can be a tough learning curve weeding through that but judging by your profile you seem like a person who has plenty of enough brains to get by. But just like for everyone else, there's bound to be bumps along the way, but that's not your fault just because you are trusting of others.

So just keep an open mind and keep asking and caring more about the truth then anything else and trust your instincts and I'm sure you will do well.

Hope that was all OK to say to you.

Best of luck.

sarah1097 03-15-2012 01:31 PM

Thanks lol it made me smile. I was told however that the quantum 4500 series, and the kde 700xf were very very close to each other. I wonder what people think of scorpion motors now compared to these two?

Chris_M 03-15-2012 01:46 PM

That Quantum 4530 has specs that look like the xera 4530 and scorpion but who knows until you try them. Im not a fan of the KDE motors personally...they are powerful motors dont get me wrong but not as efficient as some others. I have heard some 700xf running up at 200* and at those temps its just wasted mah. And I think I remember KDE posting the efficiency at 92% which imo i just cant see.

WBFAir 03-15-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah1097 (Post 3752763)
Thanks lol it made me smile. I was told however that the quantum 4500 series, and the kde 700xf were very very close to each other. I wonder what people think of scorpion motors now compared to these two?

Glad I was able to put a smile on your face.

Yeah, haven't studied the 4500 series one though as that is not what I'm looking at but in the quickest of looks, it probably is very close to the Xf's

Would be just a guess on my part but seeing as you already have one, I doubt its like you would be kicking yourself for getting it. And what really matters is if you are happy with it or not.

But I'm learning more almost by the minute in the Quantum motors and have been making mostly posts about it in the Kon section. Actually just got off the phone with HeliDirect and asked some things and am gonna run over to the Kon section to post what little I learned.

But again, for me I'm looking at the 4135 unit and especially at the great price that one is at, it really could be a interesting motor especially if it works with no issues with the HeliJive.

Thank again for the info Sarah.

WBFAir 03-15-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_M (Post 3752822)
That Quantum 4530 has specs that look like the xera 4530 and scorpion but who knows until you try them. Im not a fan of the KDE motors personally...they are powerful motors dont get me wrong but not as efficient as some others. I have heard some 700xf running up at 200* and at those temps its just wasted mah. And I think I remember KDE posting the efficiency at 92% which imo i just cant see.

Yeah and I guess we could spend 20 posts going over this but to me when I see motors for these size helos we are looking at, running with numbers of 5000-6000 watts reg, and 10-12000 watts peaks, not that there is anything wrong with that, but in the simplets of terms, that is a smack motor that even when flown lightly (which is mostly what I'm looking for) is just going to be using up pack juice.

Again if your rifling around all over the place and have the money to run 65C TP's then that is a motor for you.

But if your a poor boy like me who is running 40C 4000mAh Turnigy's and just wants to do some nice calm flying around and get 5-6 min out of those and keep them healthy for as long as he can, then a 10,000 watt motor isn't the way to do that.

rctazz 03-15-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah1097 (Post 3752763)
Thanks lol it made me smile. I was told however that the quantum 4500 series, and the kde 700xf were very very close to each other. I wonder what people think of scorpion motors now compared to these two?


Not sure how the Quantum will stack up but I have seen the Scorpion 520LE and the KDE and I think the Scorpion packs a bit more punch. And the Scorpion fits in my Avant and the KDE won't.

I am holding out for the Scorpion 4525-520 Ultimate :drool:

sarah1097 03-15-2012 08:36 PM

I wonder why the kde will not fit, since it is a direct drop in for the align. it is too long (i cant be too fat lol scorpions are way fatter). I have not heard of that new scorpion motor to be honest.

NRPY 03-15-2012 09:15 PM

Probably too tall.

rctazz 03-15-2012 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah1097 (Post 3754106)
I wonder why the kde will not fit, since it is a direct drop in for the align. it is too long (i cant be too fat lol scorpions are way fatter). I have not heard of that new scorpion motor to be honest.

Too tall. The new Scorpion motor is the replacement for the 520LE

OnTheSnap 03-16-2012 01:28 PM

I have a Quantum 4530 on pre-order. I plan on comparing it power wise in the Goblin to the 4525LE and eventually moving it to the 700e replacing my MX.

Only bummer is that the kV is not optimal for the stock gearing for 2200 gov'd. So I'll need an aftermarket motor mount.


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