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-   -   600N FAQ threads and Links ! (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=79343)

jverre 06-17-2008 04:02 PM

600N FAQ threads and Links !
 
In keeping with the Spirit of this Site of Fun, Learning, Friendship, and Mutual Respect, I thought it was time to start a Thread on FAQ for the 600N. Please add frequantly asked questions that you have seen on the 600N site here and we can start building a source of knowledge for everyone.

Finless 06-17-2008 08:14 PM

I this gets moving along nicely I will make it a sticky!

Bob

Tom Burgess 06-18-2008 10:06 AM

Ok how about,

Q: Can I use Spektrum DS821 servos in a 600N?

A: If you want but it will probably end in disaster.

Tom

TheBum 06-18-2008 10:20 AM

Q: I have a Pro (or Super Pro) and crash a lot, so I'd like to convert the tail to belt drive to save money on crashes until I get less crash prone. What parts do I need?

A:
H60079 Metal Tail Rotor Shaft Assembly
H60078 Metal Tail Drive Gear Assembly
H60043 Tail Case
H60036 Tail Drive Belt
Two M3x26 or longer cap head screws (included in H60047 fin set or third party M3x30)
Two M3 locking nuts (also included in H60047 fin set or third party)

Sonny 06-19-2008 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brgsstm (Post 725360)
Ok how about,

Q: Can I use Spektrum DS821 servos in a 600N?

A: If you want but it will probably end in disaster.

Tom

The DS 821s have a problem with the output shaft breaking due to vibration. Others have had this problem. I've got 8717s on cyclic but figure it would be ok to use the 821 for a throttle servo. Twice the output shaft broke. no binding. no real tork for throttle needed yet they break. Once causing a forced auto. Some say a longer horn screw helps but I wouldn't trust it period. Sell it to a plank flyer. They seem to have good luck with them. People have had better luck with them on the 600e.

jverre 06-19-2008 03:49 PM

Question: What needle valve setting should I use for my OS-50?

Answer: As a general rule is the higher in altitude you run, the leaner the setting should be for the engine to run at the right mixture. Having said that at standard altitude which is sea level you need to run a richer mixture. Density altitude can change with humidity and temperature. A standard day as defined in aviation is considered 59 degrees at sea level with a low humidity and a barometric pressure of 29.92.

Methods for determining mixture ranges from temp guns to placing your finger on the bottom of the engine plate feeling the temp. Some freaks use the smoke method and listen to the engine tune as they are running and flying. A carb smart is generally a good investment if you fly at different field altitudes.WEATHER CONDITIONS

The following is from an article on tuning Nitro Engines !

It’s a simple fact: for optimum performance, you must retune your nitro engine every time you run it. Anyone who assumes that the needles can be left alone once they have been set is sadly mistaken. An overnight change in weather conditions may prevent an engine from running or may put it at risk of some damage if adjustments aren’t made to the fuel-mixture settings. Ignoring an engine’s tuning needs compromises its ability to make horsepower. In response to certain changes in weather, equipment and other variables, nitro engines must be regularly retuned.

Temperature. Hot weather requires a leaner mixture setting; cold weather requires a richer setting. Most people assume the opposite because they treat the mixture needle like a thermostat. It is wrong to assume that colder weather requires a leaner setting to keep heat in the engine and vice versa. Cold air is denser than hot air. The denser, colder air packs more oxygen into the engine, so going from hot weather to cold needs a commensurate increase of fuel to balance ratio of fuel-burning oxygen and the fuel itself. The opposite is true in hotter weather. Going from cold to hot weather requires a leaner mixture setting.

Humidity. Humidity is the amount of moisture (water vapor) in the air. Moisture in the air takes up volume that would otherwise be occupied by fuel-burning oxygen. Less oxygen means less fuel is required to maintain a proper ratio of air and fuel. High humidity requires a leaner mixture setting than dry conditions.

Barometric pressure. A barometer measures the atmospheric pressure (generally listed in the local newspaper or on the local weather forecast on TV). Higher barometric pressure readings mean more air is getting into the engine, requiring a richer mixture setting to balance the air/fuel ratio.

Altitude. Altitude is an important factor that most of us ignore, yet it affects the engine’s performance possibly more than any other element. The general formula for power loss with increases in altitude is 3 percent for every 1,000 feet above sea level. If you race in Colorado at 5,000 feet instead of in California at sea level, you can expect to lose about 15 percent of the engine’s potential power output, if the engine is tuned properly.
Air is thinner at higher altitudes, which means there’s less fuel-burning oxygen than at sea level. You might sense a common theme here: less air (oxygen) means less fuel to maintain the proper air/fuel ratio. So, running at higher altitudes requires a leaner mixture setting than running at sea level.

TUNING DirectionsThis chart indicates the direction in which you should adjust the fuel mixture when faced with changing weather and other conditions. It assumes the engine is currently well tuned. You could face any combination of conditions listed in the chart; knowing which way to go with the mixture adjustments is half the battle.
Higher air temperature Lean
Lower air temperature Rich
Higher humidity Lean
Lower humidity Rich
Higher barometric pressure Rich
Lower barometric pressure Lean
Higher altitude Lean
Lower altitude Rich
Higher nitro content Rich
Lower nitro content Lean
Higher oil content Lean
Lower oil content Rich
Hotter glow plug Rich
Colder glow plug Lean

jverre 06-19-2008 05:03 PM

Question: Is a 401 gyro good enough for sport flying? Loops rolls flips.

Answer: Yes the Futaba 401 Gyro is good enough for the 600N. Many different combinations are used from the Futaba 611 to the Align Gyro. Different Helifreaks pick Gyros depending on price, ease of setup with their equipment and flying styles. Additionally, the voltage that you are running is also a determining factor for some setups.

jverre 06-19-2008 06:30 PM

Question: Is throttle Governor a must?

Answer: No you can manipulate the throttle and collective curves in the transmitter. It's not hard, but it can be a little time consuming, especially when you're new to RC Helis.

Some Freaks feel it's to the pilots advantage to learn how to setup the throttle and collective curves without resorting to the crutch of a governor. Fully understanding how throttle and collective interact with each other will go a long way to helping you fine turn your setups down the road.

Purchase a governor if you want one, but take the time to do an initial throttle setup first in-case of a governor failure. You don't have to turn the governor on right away. You can do that initial setup to where you think you want it to be and then activate the governor and see how close you got to it's programmed rpm.

jverre 06-20-2008 01:16 PM

Question: What is Shoe Goop?

Answer: A thin film of silicone used on the outer race of the bearing before putting into the block. A household grade of GE brand caulk, squeeze tube 'clear'. any brand of silicone would be fine. Any rubber/solvent based adhesive is OK - Some use builders adhesive (No More Nails) or silicone.

TheBum 06-20-2008 01:37 PM

Q: How do I insert the nipple/grommet assembly into the tank? If I insert the grommet first and then try to push in the nipple piece, the grommet pushes into the tank.

A: There are two approaches.
1. Insert the nipple piece and grommet into the tank as a single unit, using some oil, rubber-safe silicone lubricant, or spit to help squeeze it in.

2. Rather than inserting the rubber grommet such that the fat, tapered part is inside the tank, insert it with the tapered part on the outside of the tank. Then push and wiggle the nipple piece through the middle. The clunk line will need to be a little longer than spec if you do this.

jverre 06-20-2008 05:55 PM

Question: How do I set my Futaba 611 or 401 Gyro?

Answer: Watch the Mercuriell Video on the build vids. This is part two of the tail setup and has helped many Freaks resolve tail issues including setting the gain !

jverre 06-20-2008 06:23 PM

Question: Which Nitro Fuel Mixture should I use? (15% VS 30% )

Answer: Heli Freaks use a variety of mixtures. Some freaks mix their own fuel.30% Nitro for the OS-50 and it preforms good, whether or not its worth it is a personal decision. It will run smoother, cooler, and produce more power. Try it and see but make sure you richen up the mixture by a half turn or so and slowly tune it again for power.

Can you fly 15%? Yes. Will you realize more power and better cooling with 30%? Yes. But that doesn't mean that 15% can't do the job. Oil content is important in Heli engines and be sure to read the engine manufactures manual for the correct amount of oil mixture. General rule is at least 18%.

jverre 06-20-2008 07:20 PM

Question: How do I set my pitch and throttle curves? What is Idle 1 and idle 2 etc?

Answer: First watch the following Video called Curves 101 by Bob White (Finless) this should answer your basic questions and how to set up your first curves after the build...

http://video.helifreak.com/tmp/40c2a...?downloadmedia

jverre 06-21-2008 09:39 AM

Question: What Thread lock do I use? What are the colors?

Answer: Most Helifreaks use Blue thread lock on metal to metal screws. Although the attached link will take you to a Permatex website, there are many manufactures of thread lock and gels. A general rule is not to use a permatex type thread lock on plastic parts. It is has been widely discussed that it hardens the plastic parts and can cause plastic to break down. There are three colors of widely used thread lock. Green (Light duty) Blue(medium strength), and red which is generally very difficult to remove the little hardware used on Heli's. See attached Website for all you ever wanted to know about thread lock.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...eadlockers.htm

jverre 06-23-2008 02:38 PM

Question: When do you know its time to replace your bearings in the OS-50?

Answer: This is an article from Boca Bearings for the Hyper engine..

Bearing replacement !

Ball bearings should have a good, long life under optimal conditions. Depending on the application, bearing failure can be very costly and possibly cause more harm. Learning how to identify bearings that need to be replaced is a skill worth developing.

Some typical signs that your bearings need to be replaced are:

Your engine application is running excessively hot
Your engine application is running excessively noisy
There is excess slop or play in the bearing
Turning the engine by hand reveals bearing results in a gritty feel rather than a smooth feel

When bearings sit idle for a long time, they must be protected from any and all moisture. This is a common problem when storing small RC engines. If any moisture has gotten to the bearings, they will need to be replaced before using the engine again.

The Mercuriell Video on replacing bearings is a great place to start in changing and overhauling your engine. Make sure you follow the manufactures instructions.

Build & repair videos 600 Nitro & E - by Mercuriell

Also the following link discusses engine maintenance.

http://www.50-tuning.com/articles/OS...-internals.asp

Enjoy !

jverre 06-23-2008 02:56 PM

Question: How do I replace the clutch liner in the 600N.

Answer: You can tell rather easily when you need to replace the clutch liner in your heli. There are several recommendations on removing the housing, Mercuriell has a video on removing and replacing the liner.

Attached are liner replacement videos.

http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...me=clutch2.wmv

http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...utchreline.wmv

http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...HRELINETOP.wmv

Remember always follow you manufactures recommendations...

Cheers !

TheBum 06-23-2008 03:03 PM

Q: Should I use blue thread lock on the muffler bolts?

A: No. Under the high temperatures typical at the exhaust port of the engine, blue thread lock will liquify and act as a lubricant, causing the bolts to likely unscrew themselves. Red thread lock will also loosen under high temperatures. It is advisable to use no thread lock at all and then torque down the bolts after the engine has been run, while it's still hot.

TheBum 06-26-2008 10:38 AM

Q: What's the easiest way to set the low-end (idle) needle on an OS 50?

A: You can use the "pinch test". Get the engine up to operating temperature and then take it down to idle; you can make sure the engine is warm enough if you do this at the end of a flight. Then, pinch the fuel line about 1 inch from the carburetor inlet and count how many seconds elapse until the engine either dies or speeds up, whichever comes first. If the engine speeds up after 2-3 seconds, the needle is set just about right. If it dies right away, the needle is too lean and needs to be richened. If it takes longer to speed up, the needle is too rich and needs to be leaned.

Question for the gallery: Does this also work on the YS50?

jverre 06-26-2008 07:43 PM

Question: Should I run all the fuel out of your Helli when done flying?

Answer: This is a continuing discussion among many RC Enthusiast. Some folks have had bad experiences not running it out of fuel and others say not only its not necessary but will cause more damage than not doing it at all. The following is an article on that subject and you will have to decide for yourself and experience.This is an article on running your engine empty after flight. In trying to decide whether to or not the jury is still out for me.. This is a good read and only experience will tell !

Many people use after run oil in their engines after they are finished running it to prevent rust but it is not necessary if you use a good quality fuel. Nitro fuel is made up of three main components...

Nitromethane
Methanol
Oil

The nitromethane portion of rc nitro fuel is actually not overly hygroscopic, which is the term for a subsctance that readily attracts and retains water. The hygroscopic portion of nitro fuel is the methanol rather than the nitro.

Some people confuse nitromethane with nitroethane which isn't used in most nitro r/c fuels. Nitro ethane is highly hygroscopic.

Rust in nitro engines is caused by water moisture drawn in from the air by the hygroscopic methanol in the fuel and accelerated by any residual acids left in the engine. Cheaper methanol has residual acids in its natural state that greatly enhance rust. Good quality fuels use good high grade methanol with very low acid contents.

The second source of residual acids is from partially burned fuel. This is the most common source of the acids which together with the moisture can cause the crankshaft and bearings to rust.

Most people think you should run an engine dry after you run it but I strongly advocate against this for the reason mentioned above. It leaves more half-burned fuel in the engine than otherwise. Also running the engine bone dry puts undue stress on the engine parts up until it runs completely out and is just as bad as running the engine too lean. And if you use a good quality fuel with the lubrication properties of a good oil package, then you will actually experience less rust than if you burned all of the fuel out and let the engine sit.

You decide !

jverre 06-26-2008 09:03 PM

Question: Someone told me to use the idle needle to set the midrange on my 2 stroke engine. Someone else told me that the high end needle sets mid range. What's right?

Answer:The following response is from the OS-50 Engine Factory. Some of this procedure can be difficult with a Heli and extreme caution should be used with this procedure.

With most 2-stroke engines, you don't set midrange by using the idle mixture adjustment. The idle mixture adjustment is for idle only. (IN A HELI? As with most engines, it's not easy to break it in and find initial settings by flying the engine in the heli. It should have some test-stand time with an airplane propeller.)

Here's the correct way to set the carburetor:

Make sure idle mixture is set excessively rich.
Start engine and get it to full throttle.
Adjust engine so that it's running properly at full throttle...this means that it will be leaned to just below peak RPM. This setting keeps your engine just rich enough so that you won't go lean of peak when the tank gets low.
Retard the throttle and adjust the engine until you have a proper idle setting. The idle setting should also allow a reasonable acceleration.
You then must accept what you get for the midrange. If the high and low end needles are properly adjusted, and you are utilizing an appropriate plug, propellor and fuel, and your engine is operating properly, you should have an acceptable mid range at this point. You may need to adjust high or low slightly to a compromise for a mid-range you are pleased with.
You will not get the needle valve set correctly unless the engine is run at full throttle. You cannot use the idle mixture adjustment to help with the midrange. We've found that once the high-speed needle's been properly-leaned, and the idle mixture set, most 2 strokes now have a good midrange.


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