Should I remove the idle pulley ???

khaled_abobakr · 01-12-2008, 02:26 PM

Well I know that there r some pilots who have no problems with idle pulley and others hate it so much .... Actually I'm lost ... and I don't know what path should I follow ...

My experience and it is not that long ..

1- I just noticed that the belt is getting the silver color from the metal pulley after a while
2- I have never had the belt slipping over the tail gear
3-The belt tension is as defined by most of the pilots "not tight and not loose "
4-I can make both sides touch each other if I pushed one side slightly with a flat screw driver right behind the tail boom mount (black plastic block)

-What r the advantages of removing the idle pulley and if I removed it ?
-What should I do to the belt tension ?
-Will it make the belt tends to slip sideways ??

I do appreciate your help a lot

Thank you very much

Khaled

Tom Burgess · 01-12-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaled_abobakr

-What r the advantages of removing the idle pulley and if I removed it ?
-What should I do to the belt tension ?
-Will it make the belt tends to slip sideways ??

I do appreciate your help a lot

Thank you very much

Khaled

Ok, my answer is YES remove it

The advantages of removing it are that there are no disadvantages

Once done simply readjust your belt tension

And in answer to your last question if you tension is right then the belt should not move to the side.

One thing I have picked up on this issue is that everyone who has done it has seen no problems with removing it and a lot of people who have left it have had problems.

However there are people who have no problem running it.

Hope this helps

Tom

khaled_abobakr · 01-12-2008, 02:43 PM

Thank you very much it helps a lot but I really wanna know what kind of problems it might cause if I let it be

Thank you again

duceduc · 01-12-2008, 02:51 PM

Yes, remove it. Mine belt skippped out of the pulley guide during first flight. Minor crash.

HeliSmith · 01-12-2008, 03:01 PM

Removed Sky Shark and Trex 450SE V2 no problems what so ever.

I ran the idler pulley for several months and had no problems. I removed it because if there are no problems running without it then it is just one more piece of drag.

atomicplatypus · 01-12-2008, 03:47 PM

I just finished removing the idler pulley only after 7 flights with my 450. I found the belt was binding up beside the pulley and the tail casing while fraying the belt. On my 8th flight with the pulley removed the belt stays put in the centre. I'm keeping an eye on it but first impressions seem good.

Pinecone · 01-12-2008, 08:06 PM

Remove it.

kamtsa · 01-13-2008, 04:21 AM

I did not have belt problems but removed it anyway (the pulley, not the belt). Also removed the screw that hold it. So far so good.

Kam

Bretuk · 01-13-2008, 05:51 AM

I removed my IDLER PULLEY on my Trex450seV2 and have no more issues, it was comming off, getting tangled within boom. Some silicon spray (as used on car dashboards) on belt works a treat.

deepcmonkey · 01-13-2008, 08:35 AM

Removed mine after belt snapped in a hover after fast piros, I now lightly tension the belt and spray a bit of silicone lube on the belt and all seems fine.

iflymyhelishigh · 07-28-2008, 02:36 PM

thats what an idler pulley was... Oh ok... I'll take mine out when I get home from work.

mattkreps · 07-30-2008, 04:23 AM

The solution to your problem is to put the beam tail case on your 350. It has better pitch range and is WAY easier to do repairs.

Scotty T · 08-04-2008, 01:20 PM

Wow, this is really interesting.

I have 3 450's a SA, SE, SE V2. One time I had the bet fray, not so good.

Then I put on a new belt and again it frayed after the first flight. Not good at all.

It was wrapped to the side of the ideler pully. Now, many would have said, yank the idler pully.

I did not! I didn't even know to.

I pulled the tail belt gear assembly completly out, pulled apart the tail assembly, looked for binding and lubed up all the moving part.

After I did this, I never had another belt stripping problem.

Do you pull it because you are having problems you can't solve, or do you solve the problem?

It might be like a gall bladder but it was put there for a reason.

Just a thought.

Gary JP4 · 08-04-2008, 01:53 PM

You might pull it because you don't need it and it adds drag (a noticeable amount).

If something on the rear shaft was binding like bearings I could see where that could cause belt problems. If the belt is riding up on one side of the pulley what do you think causes that? I think that is what usually causes belt shredding. Why, because when I see belt shredding many times the belt stays up on the pulley. Silicone doesn’t make the belt slip because unlike auto fan belts it has teeth in it and in the pulleys. It just makes it stop riding up on the pulley. IMO lubrication of the belt with silicone can stop the belt from riding up on the pulley and thus stop shredding. If you have malformed teeth in the pulleys or burrs on the flange then silicone alone probably won’t help. I don't think belt shredding is usually because of binding. Lubricating the belt also reduces drag noticeable. I don't recommend the following for safety reasons but if you spool up to a set power setting on the ground and spray silicone on the belt while it is running you will get a noticeable gain in RPM (head speed) and it will stay there.

Scotty, When you pulled the tail assembly did you possibly get lubrication on the belt and pulleys? That may have fixed your problem for good.

I had problems with belt shredding at first too. I first solved it by removing deformed plastic pulleys, switching to a V grooved idler pulley from the MX-400 (which I don’t think makes any difference) and lubricating the belt. Some claim to have solved the problem by removing the idler pulley alone, some with a “V” grooved idler, and some with an aftermarket belt. It also seems that if you get past the first 5 or 10 flights on a belt without lubrication you probably won’t have any trouble later so it may only just help for brake in. I never shredded a belt again but removed the idler pulley latter anyway just to try it. It has less drag, autos better, and probably is generally a little better for everything involved, i.e. is the motor, batteries, belt, flight time, etc.

This is a long thread titled Lubed Belt, can't believe the difference but in addition to lubrication it talks about, belt fraying and breaking, removing the idler pulley, aluminum booms vs. CF, tension, etc. Bob (Finless) advocates using Food Grade Silicone on post #106 (not for belt fraying but because it reduces drag).

Just a spot check of some other threads about removing the idler pulley over the years. Most also involve statements about lubrication, unbelievable. As you can see this is just a search on remove+idler. Also try belt+shredding, belt+breaking, belt+pulley, etc:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=24420&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=120825&highlight=remove+idler#pos t120825
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=167805&highlight=remove+idler#pos t167805
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=215674&highlight=remove+idler#pos t215674 Same name as this one. "Should I remove the idle pulley" 12/23/2006
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=432090&highlight=remove+idler#pos t432090
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=45792&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=320207&highlight=remove+idler#pos t320207
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=289848&highlight=remove+idler#pos t289848
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=347935&highlight=remove+idler#pos t347935
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=487037&highlight=remove+idler#pos t487037
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=60571&highlight=remove+idler&page =2
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=610927&highlight=remove+idler#pos t610927
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=552138&highlight=remove+idler#pos t552138
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=63256&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=727026&highlight=remove+idler#pos t727026
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=85726&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=787088&highlight=remove+idler#pos t787088

Scotty T · 07-28-2008, 02:56 PM

Whoa!

This is the first I'm hearing about this.

Why?

Is there a benifit or are you guys just in the mood to remove it?

GreenCello · 07-28-2008, 03:55 PM

Idler pulley synopsis
1. There are some 450 pilots who have never had a problem with their belt who choose to retain their idler pulley.
2. There are some (it seems from previous posts many) 450 pilots who have had problems with the belt jamming, creeping to the left, or breaking who remove the idler pulley or replace it with an aftermarket flanged idler pulley in the belief that the designers put the pulley there for a reason. No one on this forum has reported negative results from using a flanged pulley.
3. There are some pilots who believe that there is no mechanical reason to have the idler pulley which may cause the above mentioned problems and remove the idler pulley and thereby remove a source of friction. No one on this forum has reported negative results from removing the pulley.

BIG_G · 07-28-2008, 04:02 PM

Remove It!
I had loads of problems with the belt coming off the pulley.
Took the pulley off, pressed out it's bearing and put that back instead of the pulley, and 39 batteries later, it has not moved once.

Mikee · 07-28-2008, 04:14 PM

Yes Remove it and don't delay....

Mikee (Bournemouth) UK

hawkins221 · 07-28-2008, 04:49 PM

why is this good? dos it help with less friction

gravydrive · 07-28-2008, 04:52 PM

Do a search. There are literally hundreds of threads on the "idler pulley".

01-12-2008, 03:01 PM	#5
HeliSmith Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chico, California	Removed Sky Shark and Trex 450SE V2 no problems what so ever. I ran the idler pulley for several months and had no problems. I removed it because if there are no problems running without it then it is just one more piece of drag. __________________ *(Compass Warp 360 w/Stock Motor (17t) running from a YGE60 governed at 3200RPM by the Vbar Black, sporting MKS DS95 on cyclic and JR3500G on tail)* Proud Field Representative for the following To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-12-2008, 03:47 PM	#6
atomicplatypus Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Canada	I just finished removing the idler pulley only after 7 flights with my 450. I found the belt was binding up beside the pulley and the tail casing while fraying the belt. On my 8th flight with the pulley removed the belt stays put in the centre. I'm keeping an eye on it but first impressions seem good. __________________ T-REX 450SE V2 / 430XL - 35A ESC / GY401 - S9650 / DX7 - AR6100 / JR DS285 / Gorilla Gear & Paddles

01-12-2008, 08:06 PM	#7
Pinecone Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Maryland	Remove it. __________________ Terry AMA#47402, IRCHA # 3395 Blade CP "Pro", Trex 450SE, PiccoZ, Quick of Japan EP8v2 EX, Hurricane 550, Hurricane 200, JR Vibe 50, Blade mCX, Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Pantera 50, Blade mSR, Novus CP

01-13-2008, 05:51 AM	#9
Bretuk Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: S.Wales UK	I removed my IDLER PULLEY on my Trex450seV2 and have no more issues, it was comming off, getting tangled within boom. Some silicon spray (as used on car dashboards) on belt works a treat. Attached Thumbnails __________________ T-Rex450seV2. Align 430XL 3700KV, Align ESC BL35X, Zippy 3S 11.1v 2200mAh, Futaba 401 gyro/9650, 3x Hitec HS65HB, Spektrum DX7/AR7000, Phoenix. Last edited by Bretuk; 01-13-2008 at 11:41 AM.. Reason: add more text

07-30-2008, 04:23 AM	#12
mattkreps Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rancho	The solution to your problem is to put the beam tail case on your 350. It has better pitch range and is WAY easier to do repairs. __________________ Trex 450SE V2, Trex 500 CF, Trex 600 Nitro Pro DX7, AR7000s, JR770s 2.4 is for people who only listen to AM radio (like me)

01-12-2008, 02:26 PM	#1
khaled_abobakr Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alexandria	Should I remove the idle pulley ??? Well I know that there r some pilots who have no problems with idle pulley and others hate it so much .... Actually I'm lost ... and I don't know what path should I follow ... My experience and it is not that long .. 1- I just noticed that the belt is getting the silver color from the metal pulley after a while 2- I have never had the belt slipping over the tail gear 3-The belt tension is as defined by most of the pilots "not tight and not loose " 4-I can make both sides touch each other if I pushed one side slightly with a flat screw driver right behind the tail boom mount (black plastic block) -What r the advantages of removing the idle pulley and if I removed it ? -What should I do to the belt tension ? -Will it make the belt tends to slip sideways ?? I do appreciate your help a lot Thank you very much Khaled

01-12-2008, 02:43 PM	#3
khaled_abobakr Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alexandria	Thank you very much it helps a lot but I really wanna know what kind of problems it might cause if I let it be Thank you again

01-12-2008, 02:51 PM	#4
duceduc Registered Users Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Japan	Yes, remove it. Mine belt skippped out of the pulley guide during first flight. Minor crash.

01-13-2008, 04:21 AM	#8
kamtsa Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: CA, USA	I did not have belt problems but removed it anyway (the pulley, not the belt). Also removed the screw that hold it. So far so good. Kam

01-13-2008, 08:35 AM	#10
deepcmonkey Registered Users Join Date: Dec 2007	Removed mine after belt snapped in a hover after fast piros, I now lightly tension the belt and spray a bit of silicone lube on the belt and all seems fine.

07-28-2008, 02:36 PM	#11
iflymyhelishigh My HF Map location Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern VA	thats what an idler pulley was... Oh ok... I'll take mine out when I get home from work.

08-04-2008, 01:20 PM	#13
Scotty T Registered Users Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Fairfield, CT.	Wow, this is really interesting. I have 3 450's a SA, SE, SE V2. One time I had the bet fray, not so good. Then I put on a new belt and again it frayed after the first flight. Not good at all. It was wrapped to the side of the ideler pully. Now, many would have said, yank the idler pully. I did not! I didn't even know to. I pulled the tail belt gear assembly completly out, pulled apart the tail assembly, looked for binding and lubed up all the moving part. After I did this, I never had another belt stripping problem. Do you pull it because you are having problems you can't solve, or do you solve the problem? It might be like a gall bladder but it was put there for a reason. Just a thought.

08-04-2008, 01:53 PM	#14
Gary JP4 Registered Users Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nashville, USA	You might pull it because you don't need it and it adds drag (a noticeable amount). If something on the rear shaft was binding like bearings I could see where that could cause belt problems. If the belt is riding up on one side of the pulley what do you think causes that? I think that is what usually causes belt shredding. Why, because when I see belt shredding many times the belt stays up on the pulley. Silicone doesn’t make the belt slip because unlike auto fan belts it has teeth in it and in the pulleys. It just makes it stop riding up on the pulley. IMO lubrication of the belt with silicone can stop the belt from riding up on the pulley and thus stop shredding. If you have malformed teeth in the pulleys or burrs on the flange then silicone alone probably won’t help. I don't think belt shredding is usually because of binding. Lubricating the belt also reduces drag noticeable. I don't recommend the following for safety reasons but if you spool up to a set power setting on the ground and spray silicone on the belt while it is running you will get a noticeable gain in RPM (head speed) and it will stay there. Scotty, When you pulled the tail assembly did you possibly get lubrication on the belt and pulleys? That may have fixed your problem for good. I had problems with belt shredding at first too. I first solved it by removing deformed plastic pulleys, switching to a V grooved idler pulley from the MX-400 (which I don’t think makes any difference) and lubricating the belt. Some claim to have solved the problem by removing the idler pulley alone, some with a “V” grooved idler, and some with an aftermarket belt. It also seems that if you get past the first 5 or 10 flights on a belt without lubrication you probably won’t have any trouble later so it may only just help for brake in. I never shredded a belt again but removed the idler pulley latter anyway just to try it. It has less drag, autos better, and probably is generally a little better for everything involved, i.e. is the motor, batteries, belt, flight time, etc. This is a long thread titled Lubed Belt, can't believe the difference but in addition to lubrication it talks about, belt fraying and breaking, removing the idler pulley, aluminum booms vs. CF, tension, etc. Bob (Finless) advocates using Food Grade Silicone on post #106 (not for belt fraying but because it reduces drag). Just a spot check of some other threads about removing the idler pulley over the years. Most also involve statements about lubrication, unbelievable. As you can see this is just a search on remove+idler. Also try belt+shredding, belt+breaking, belt+pulley, etc: http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=24420&highlight=remove+idler http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=120825&highlight=remove+idler#pos t120825 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=167805&highlight=remove+idler#pos t167805 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=215674&highlight=remove+idler#pos t215674 Same name as this one. "Should I remove the idle pulley" 12/23/2006 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=432090&highlight=remove+idler#pos t432090 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=45792&highlight=remove+idler http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=320207&highlight=remove+idler#pos t320207 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=289848&highlight=remove+idler#pos t289848 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=347935&highlight=remove+idler#pos t347935 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=487037&highlight=remove+idler#pos t487037 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=60571&highlight=remove+idler&page =2 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=610927&highlight=remove+idler#pos t610927 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=552138&highlight=remove+idler#pos t552138 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=63256&highlight=remove+idler http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=727026&highlight=remove+idler#pos t727026 http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=85726&highlight=remove+idler http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=787088&highlight=remove+idler#pos t787088 __________________ T-Rex 450 SE, 430L 13t, Align 35A ESC, 325 Pro, JR 6102DX6, GY401, 9650, HS-65MG'S. Last edited by Gary JP4; 08-04-2008 at 07:29 PM.. Reason: Added references. Spelling since it is a sticky

07-28-2008, 02:56 PM	#15
Scotty T Registered Users Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Fairfield, CT.	Whoa! This is the first I'm hearing about this. Why? Is there a benifit or are you guys just in the mood to remove it?

07-28-2008, 03:55 PM	#16
GreenCello Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Rappahannock Co, Va	Idler pulley synopsis 1. There are some 450 pilots who have never had a problem with their belt who choose to retain their idler pulley. 2. There are some (it seems from previous posts many) 450 pilots who have had problems with the belt jamming, creeping to the left, or breaking who remove the idler pulley or replace it with an aftermarket flanged idler pulley in the belief that the designers put the pulley there for a reason. No one on this forum has reported negative results from using a flanged pulley. 3. There are some pilots who believe that there is no mechanical reason to have the idler pulley which may cause the above mentioned problems and remove the idler pulley and thereby remove a source of friction. No one on this forum has reported negative results from removing the pulley.

07-28-2008, 04:02 PM	#17
BIG_G Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkshire, England.	Remove It! I had loads of problems with the belt coming off the pulley. Took the pulley off, pressed out it's bearing and put that back instead of the pulley, and 39 batteries later, it has not moved once.

07-28-2008, 04:14 PM	#18
Mikee Registered Users Join Date: May 2007 Location: UK	Yes Remove it and don't delay.... Mikee (Bournemouth) UK

07-28-2008, 04:49 PM	#19
hawkins221 Registered Users Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: amsterdam	why is this good? dos it help with less friction

07-28-2008, 04:52 PM	#20
gravydrive Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Jacksonville, FL	Do a search. There are literally hundreds of threads on the "idler pulley".

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