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Old 11-09-2010, 11:03 AM   #1
Fingerless
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Default Funcopter perhaps a bad buy

New to Helicopters so thought the Funcopter would be a safe buy, Ive heard it can be an expensive hobby while learning.

It seems to be underpowered don't get much time off my batteries, i would try a 4 cell battery but not sure if the motor would take the voltage, had a few knocks so its not a robust as they make out, swashplate went fast, a servo has already packed up and it makes grinding sound at speed coming from the gearing under the rotor, cant see any damage. It says that it had different blade setting for bigger or smaller batteries, never seen anything with the instructions.

One went for 205 Pounds on Ebay last week, that's where i will be heading soon i think, in the meantime i bought a Blade 400 3D RTF with a Spektrum DX61 comes with everthing all for 200 Pounds.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:13 PM   #2
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Hmmm, where to start.

The FunCopter is a "tougher" heli than the B400. What I know needs upgrading with the FC that needs to be upgraded from the start is the ESC, gyro, and tail servo. After that, it has enough power and performance on 3S to do some decent sport flying with good flight times.

As for the B400, you'll easily spend twice what you paid for it upgrading the ESC, gyro, and all four servos. And the B400 isn't as easy to fly being its a collective pitch heli.

I've owned and upgraded a B400, I know how much money can be dumped into it to make it a decent heli. I've flown a FC, and find it to be much more suited to a beginner than the B400.

Check some of the B400 videos in this forum to see if yours is performing like the others. Maybe it just needs a single upgrade, like a better ESC to get it going better.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:37 AM   #3
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I dont have the Blade 400 yet so cant compare it with others on video, i will stick with the Funcopter for a while at least its durable, thanks for your comments.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:21 AM   #4
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sorry to hear of all the damage. you can't go 4s on the stock esc, the motor will take 4s as it's rated for 3s-4s, but if you're going to upgarde the esc, make sure it will go 4s.

I'm running the stock esc and have no issues with it, i've posted some videos in your other thread. I run with a 2200mah 3s 20c and 30c batteries and fly for 10min.

I would suggest the following:

1. training skids
2. change the cyclic servos to hs82mg
3. change gyro to a knock off 401 or a real futaba 401 (careful with ebay on the gy401)
4. change the tail servo to a hsg-5084

with this crash make sure you don't have any teeth missing in any of the gears, this will cause a tail wag and you won't be able to set up the gyro properly
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:59 AM   #5
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Many thanks for the info i had it out this morning and it was hovering quite nice, sadly then i crashed it, not really that much damage but had to order 3 lots of spares, these Helis can be expensive to learn to fly on.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:04 PM   #6
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Wow seen your videos you must be good, i will never be that good too old and not good cordination i can manage the planes ok as long as there not too fast.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:41 PM   #7
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Wow seen your videos you must be good, i will never be that good too old and not good cordination i can manage the planes ok as long as there not too fast.
lol, hardly

been at it for 2yrs last month, still can't fly in a circle, can't nose in. will tell you I made a break through in my flying because of the Funcopter though. Fastest I've gotten this so far is 30mph/48kph so it's not screaming fast but can seem to be

hang in there, I'm a FP guy, as Bob O stated, a CP is going to be A LOT of work for even a small tip over. I've flown a CP before and for my flying style FP serves the purpose for me
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:57 PM   #8
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Best advice, like others have already said;

Use training gear until you have mastered hovering and close in figure eights. The training gear sticks should be at least as long as your main blade outer diameter (yours look a little short) Also, you are better to add practise golf balls on ends to avoid digging into the grass/dirt.

Add an extension (~1.5 inches) to your tail vertical fill (Helps keep tail blades out of grass/dirt.

I listened to your video and the gear noise sounds like your rear tail gear mesh is too lose. Add another nylon shim to the rear tail boom gear and see if this improves things.

Although billed as a beginners heli it would help a lot if you have some experience with a coaxial heli. Also, you need a PC simulator to help program your brain a bit faster.

Best advice is to seek the help of local heli guys. Trying to figure all this out yourself with minor input from the web, is unlikely to work for you, or it will end up costing you a lot on spares.

I would also suggest you avoid upgrading anything on this heli until you are well past the hovering stage. The stock 3s setup will work fine for this. If you have problems holding the tail with the stock multiplex gyro and stock servo (basically just a hitec hs-81) try running the gyro in Rate Mode instead of Heading Hold mode. I find that most fixed pitch heli's seem to work better (less tail wag) using rate mode, even with a beter Fut401.

Good luck and cheers,
TomC
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:13 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the good advice how you where able to figure out the sound was coming from the tail gearing i dont know, at first i thought it was the blade scraping against the fuselage, when i took the fuselage off still had the sound, seems its from the tail gearing i think cause it makes a clicking sound when you go one way on the rudder, cant seem to get the rudder apart the allan key wont work on it.

How to you .....Add another nylon shim to the rear tail boom gear and see if this improves things......no idea how to do that, thanks again.
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:45 AM   #10
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cant seem to get the rudder apart the allan key wont work on it.

How to you .....Add another nylon shim to the rear tail boom gear and see if this improves things......no idea how to do that, thanks again.
The smallest silver coloured allan key supplied (1.5mm) should work. Just remove the 2x screws that hold the tail gear box onto the boom. Refer to your instruction manual pictures.

The allan keys supplied with most kits are prety ordinary. I recommend you buy a set of hex drivers (look like screwdrivers with allan keys on their ends. A set of 4 of these usually only costs ~$20-30 and includes 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0mm hex drivers.

Once you have it appart (slipping the z-bend of the rudder control wire out of the rear rudder control lever) you should inspect the bevel gear at the end of the boom and the one inside the tail case (use a flashlight to look at it). If either of these is missing a tooth, replace them. Replacement gearsets are available from your funcopter supplier (part # 22 3004).

The gear that is most likely to strip a tooth is the small one on the rear tail shaft. Refer to your instruction manual pictures to see how to remove/replace this. Figure it out from the pictures or get some local helper to show you how to do this.

If the gears look ok (and/or you have replaced them) take the large bevel gear at the end of the tail boom off (using the right sized allan/hex driver) and you will see a small nylon washer between it and the end of the boom. Add another small washer and reassemble it. If you don't have any spare washers there is a spare on in the replacement gearset package or you can buy a set of washers (part # 22 3025). This should help tighten the gear mesh between the 2 rear bevel gears a bit and help stop the clicking noise you are hearing.

If you cannot figure this all out yourself, and/or won't get some local help/advice, then hang the heli up, or sell it. Your heli career is over and maybe it's time to get a nice little electric glider. Hopefully it won't go that far lol!. If it does, maybe change your username from fingerless to clueless (just kidding).

Good luck and cheers,
TomC
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingerless View Post
I dont have the Blade 400 yet so cant compare it with others on video, i will stick with the Funcopter for a while at least its durable, thanks for your comments.
Oops, I meant to type FunCopter videos.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:25 AM   #12
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The pair of opposed set screws (aka grub screws) on my tail drive pinion had high strength thread locker on them. Even with a half decent set of hardened steel drivers I had a lot of torsion and twist on the driver shaft to get the screws out. I would recommend heating the head of those screws with the tip of a small soldering iron, but make sure not to cook the plastic pinion.

Since the drive wire is well fixed by bushings at both ends of the boom, I don't think you need to install any additional shims to tighten the gear mesh, simply slip the aft drive pinion a tiny bit further aft (1/32" maybe) to get a tighter mesh with the driven pinion on the tail rotor shaft. The drive wire is basically "floating" fore/aft in this case.
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Since the drive wire is well fixed by bushings at both ends of the boom, I don't think you need to install any additional shims to tighten the gear mesh, simply slip the aft drive pinion a tiny bit further aft (1/32" maybe) to get a tighter mesh with the driven pinion on the tail rotor shaft. The drive wire is basically "floating" fore/aft in this case.
Sorry, I have tried this in the past and it does not work very well and it can adversley effect the mesh of the large front bevel gears (at the main shaft). An additional nylon shim works best imho.

Cheers,
TomC
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:02 PM   #14
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How does the main shaft mesh get screwed up if it's floating? If the shaft is floating (fore/aft) won't it press with equal force against the main shaft and the tail rotor shaft pinions?

This is working fine for me, and is better than the gear grinding mesh from the factory.
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
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How does the main shaft mesh get screwed up if it's floating? If the shaft is floating (fore/aft) won't it press with equal force against the main shaft and the tail rotor shaft pinions?

This is working fine for me, and is better than the gear grinding mesh from the factory.
This floating idea sounds good but unfortunately it does not excactly work out that way. When I tried it it ended up causing a lot of excess wear on the front large bevel gears and did not really seem to help the rear gear meshing very much either. Just ends up putting small jabs of excess loads on both sets of gears.

You are much better to 'set' the front and rear meshing separately, like it is designed to do. The extra washer between the boom and rear tail gear helps set the mesh to the tailbox gear a little tigher. This has worked for many people right now, including me.

If you are happy with your 'floater' it's not for me to tell you to do something else, but this is not how it's designed to work. All heli's with torque-tube tails are designed to set gear meshing separately at both ends and have minimal 'float (like none) on the TT shaft itself.

Cheers,
TomC
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:20 AM   #16
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Wow thanks for taking the time to reply in length, dont you get tired of helping out people on here, im in a Club here but they dont really fly them here, a few have taken them up but find them too wallet draining and they stick to planes you can crash planes and it might cost nothing, crash a Helicopter is always going to be painfull, the Funcopter is quite robust, my Blade arrived today it looks like it would if disintegrate if crashed like the funcopter.

I will show your message to someone to fix the Heli im not that good at that stuff, even before i lost fingers in a fire, thanks again.
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:22 AM   #17
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QUOTE=Fingerless;2459423] my Blade arrived today it looks like it would if disintegrate if crashed like the funcopter.

I will show your message to someone to fix the Heli im not that good at that stuff, even before i lost fingers in a fire, thanks again.[/QUOTE]

I'd try to hang in there with your Funcopter as long as possible and only go to the Blade 400 later. The Blade's Spektrum DX6i Tx and Rx are pretty good so you might want to look at moving these over to your FC.

You mentioned earlier that you thought the FC on 3s was a little under-powered. You are right but this is a good thing for beginners since you will not climb too fast and/or over-power it into the ground and sustain a lot of damage. I'd stick with 3s 3000-3200mahr packs to begin with and maybe look at a lighter weight 3s-2650mahr pack to improve it's performance a bit. After you get comfortable with close-in circuits and figure eights, maybe look at 4s 2650 packs. The motor is fine with this, but you'll probably need to upgrade the esc. I upgraded mine to a Hobbyking Turnigy 60amp plush esc and on 4s it works great.

If and when you are ready to give the Blade 400 a go I suggest you replace the stock 10t motor pinion with a 9t pinion (Eflite part # EFLH1409 for ~$4-5). This will lower the heli's headspeed ~10% and make it a little more docile/easier to fly. Keep in mind that crashes with this heli will cost at least twice as much to repair. Repairs and setups are also about twice as hard as well. Don't mean to scare you, but them is the facts.

Regardless, with all your remaining fingers, hang in there lol!

Best cheers,
TomC
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:22 AM   #18
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The problem was a bent boom and some of the nylon gearing so it seems to fly ok now, had to replace the servos with metal gear ones, and may upgrade to a 4 cell layout dont get enough power with 3 cell.
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:33 AM   #19
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The problem was a bent boom and some of the nylon gearing so it seems to fly ok now, had to replace the servos with metal gear ones, and may upgrade to a 4 cell layout dont get enough power with 3 cell.
Glad to hear you got your FC sorted out. I think the 3S fly's pretty good with lighter 3s-2650mahr packs. It's not a powerhouse and you really need to fly it fairly fast-forward to help generate lift, esp. down-wind.

On 4S (I use 4s-2650 packs) it's quite a bit more powerful. Slow, hovering landings, even downwind, are not a problem. The only minus is that you really need to keep on the tail when you apply power because it will tend to kick out the tail a bit due to the higher power/torque.

Also, on 4s the motor tends to get a bit warmer than on 3s so try to keep flight times no more than 10 minutes and let the motor cool at least 10-15 minutes between flights. No problem for me since I now have 2x funcopters; 1x RR FC on 3s and 1x arf FC on 4s and I just alternate between them.

Best Xmas Cheers,
TomC
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