Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Gasser Helicopters > TRM Power


TRM Power TRM Power - Toxic Al Factory Support Forum Worldwide. Any Product.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2011, 09:16 AM   #1
chopperhopper
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Niceville, FL
Default TRM VX-231 Help

Hello there,

I have a few questions about my new motor; first a little background. I have been flying helis for about 10 years on and off but have only had one other gasser, a Predator with the Hanson 260 back in 2004. I have had a few HPI baja gassers as well, so I consider myself somewhat familiar with these engines.

The setup in question is a Radikal G30SE with the TRM VX231. Pitch curve in normal (which is what I am using of course) is -5, 0, +10. Throttle curve is 0, 19, 21, 27, 43, 65, 100. I am on my first tank of fuel in it and I am having problems starting it and keeping it running. I am using Coleman Fuel with Ace Hardware brand 2-Cycle Ashless Engine oil mixed at 4.5 ounces per gallon (the only ashless I could find around here). I am using the pull start. I started with both needles at 1.5 turned from closed and it fired right up, that was the only time it has started easily. To get it started every other time the choke has to be closed to get it to to fire off for a second, and then pull again with the choke off, this is especially true after it has been warmed up. This gets it going.

With both needles @ 1.5 turns it will not idle and, it requires a "feathering" of the throttle to get the headspeed up without killing the motor, the transition into a hover usually ends with the motor dying, and the transition back onto the ground always ends with the motor dying immediately.

With the LS needle @ 1 3/8 turn from closed it starts easier but surges very badly, to the point that I cannot get near a transition into hover without the heli violently yawing.

With the LS needle @ 1 5/8 turns from closed is is very hard to start, usually end up being about 15 pulls to get it going. The throttle has to be pretty far open to start and idle also. I can get it into a very low hover like this after I let the head speed come up very slowly, but as soon as I let off the throttle even a little, the engine dies. It feels like I am right on the edge of going onto the HS needle.

I have only run about 1/2 tank through it so far. Am I being too cautious? I feel like either I am doing something wrong, or something is out of whack. I have never really had any trouble with a gasser motor before. I am absolutely NOT complaining at all, just looking for some advise before I do any damage . Thanks!

Here are a couple pics of my setup just for you to look over:


chopperhopper is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 06:47 AM   #2
Peter
Registered Users
 
Posts: 837
 

Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gold Coast , Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Default

Is the tank vent on the other side ??

Try to get the carb butterfly approx 1/3 open at your hover stick position , a throttle " curve" of 5, 10, 15 , 20, 25, 35 , 100 is common !
__________________
Peter .... Furion 6 FBL ; E,N and G Whiplash FBL ; 2 Spectra G FBL ; Stratus FBL ;MA Extreme+E Razor+N Razor +Fury 55 FBL;xcell 60+xcell 70: Aeolus KME 60 , TSA 700N .. All BeastX ; guided by XPS .
Peter is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 08:38 AM   #3
cbergen
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,708
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cassopolis,MI
Default

I would suggest talking with Al on this and following his recommendations, but it sounds to me like you are VERY rich on the needles.

Consider the fact that you are having to open the throttle quite a lot to get it to idle and hover. For the engine to run, there has to be a proper fuel/air ratio. With the needles (fuel) this rich, you are having to add a lot more butterfly opening (air) to match it to get the right fuel/air ratio.
__________________
Chris D. Bergen
Bergen R/C Helicopters
cbergen is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 09:53 AM   #4
baseclass
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
Default

I'll second Peter's question.... I wondered about a vent as well.

And I love your choke handle ;-). I ended up doing the very same thing because the stock lever was just too big. I'd love to hear how others may have changed this up as well.
baseclass is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 03:33 PM   #5
Mega325
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NC
Default

I say your rich and I always tune HS needle first then low. If you have to adjust your throttle stop. may be closing to much.
Mega325 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 06:08 PM   #6
chopperhopper
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Niceville, FL
Default

Thanks for the replies. So the popular opinion right now is too rich, got it, I will lean it slightly and so what that does. The tank vent it an excellent question; does the primer bulb return line not work as a vent? I will add third line to the tank as a vent if not. I imagine that would probably be my hard to start problem and poor running performance if my tank is completely sealed! I am glad you guys are here to make me think. I also PMed Toxic Al the same original info.
chopperhopper is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 11:49 PM   #7
baseclass
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
Default

The lack of a vent is almost certainly the problem. I started my TRM at 1 1/2 open on both needles to start with and that was very close. It seems a tad rich when it approaches hover but until I have the first gallon through it, I'm keeping it rich.

I"m curious, is your setup how Century has it in their instructions? I don't see how that can possibly work.

k
baseclass is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 08:56 PM   #8
chopperhopper
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Niceville, FL
Default

Ok, I feel like a fool. Vented tank, problem solved. Running great now!
chopperhopper is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 10:34 PM   #9
baseclass
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
Default

Good to hear Chopper... and don't feel bad. Even seasoned pros of 20 years overlook something now and then. That's why forums like this are so nice. You get an extra 100 pair of eyes to look over your issue. So nice compared to 20 years ago when all we had was a buddy or two at some dirt road in the middle of nowhere to look at our stuff!

k
baseclass is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 08:43 AM   #10
cbergen
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,708
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cassopolis,MI
Default

Great catch guys!! Do the instructions tell you to install a vent line?
__________________
Chris D. Bergen
Bergen R/C Helicopters
cbergen is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 07:24 PM   #11
Toxic Al
Registered Users
 
Posts: 226
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Fla
Default

I want to thank you guys for helping out, this is what I like about this site. I am sorry Chopper for not getting back to you. I did not get pm notification and I have been away from the sites lately. You guys can always call me anytime you need for help. Peace, Al 407-461-9225
Toxic Al is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 06:43 PM   #12
chopperhopper
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Niceville, FL
Default

No problem at all Al, got it figured out and I am good to go now!
chopperhopper is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 06:40 AM   #13
carey shurley
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lake Mary, FL
Default

Quote:
Great catch guys!! Do the instructions tell you to install a vent line?
these do:

Gas Helicopter Tank Fuel Plumbing - My Way
__________________
Carey Shurley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
carey shurley is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Gasser Helicopters > TRM Power


TRM Power TRM Power - Toxic Al Factory Support Forum Worldwide. Any Product.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com