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Mini CP Walkera Mini CP Helicopter Support


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Old 04-15-2012, 09:34 AM   #21
jonbailie
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I flew around this hp05 combo for a little bit and was certainly impressed by the power available. The headspeed is quite high, so a bit of trial and error blade-balancing was required. It took me about 30 minutes to find the perfect spot for a small slice of electrical tape, but after that, it worked awesome. I lowered my pitch travels about 15-20 points and the climb out was properly fast, with no tail blowouts and whatnot. Also, with the reduced travel, it performed 3d a bit better, since there wasn't quite so much torque trying to kick the tail out.

This is an awesome combo Even if you're only into some forward flight and sport flight, it's very fast at that, too I would love to clock this little bird and see how fast it actually goes with a brushless conversion. Try catching the wind behind you sometime
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:11 AM   #22
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Sounds pretty good!
Do you know what the headspeed is?
What size pinion are you using?

Here is my solution for maximum power and flight times.

Tom
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:13 AM   #23
mescalinedream
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Asteroid designs will flash the 7amp to governed mode. Please send it off and tell us the results. It would be so nice to have a governed mini!


One more thing, can you get a better schematic pictured. The pencil drawing is hardly visible . Thanks
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:56 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX2Pilot View Post
Here is my solution for maximum power and flight times.
Wow! I'm going to try that mod to turn my 02S into a 600!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mescalinedream View Post
One more thing, can you get a better schematic pictured. The pencil drawing is hardly visible . Thanks
Sorry, that's the best resolution I have available.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX2Pilot View Post
Sounds pretty good!
Do you know what the headspeed is?
What size pinion are you using?

Here is my solution for maximum power and flight times.

Tom
The headspeed was about the same as my C05m genius cp. I no longer have the HP05 setup because I ended up putting a Spin 16.3k motor in there. I'm in the process of trying to tame it down some, as it's quite a powerful setup... it's actually too powerful and the headspeed is way too high for the little Genius, even with my 8T pinion.

On the HP05 setup, though, I was getting arond 3:30-4:00 minutes max flight time with Hyperion 240s and the wowhobbies 300mah/20c lipos. I got around the same flight time with both batteries. It may have been a few seconds longer with the 300mah batteries, but the difference was negligible. The headspeed was fairly high with the stock pinion, but I went down to an 8T (stock is 9T, I think) pinion and got all the headspeed/torque I ever needed. With my pitch travel adjustments at 100%, I could blow the tail out, but if I lowered it to around 75-80%, and with my extended tail boom/mcpx v3 tail rotor, I was able to keep the tail pretty solid.

It did 3D pretty well, and with decent collective management, performed very nicely with the tail locked in place. It did take a bit of fine tuning to get the blade balance spot on, but after that I had no gyro instability or twitchiness.

I'm actually probably going to swap the C05m out with an HP05 soon... I really miss that setup. The C05 is great, even with the stock 9T pinion, but I can make it bog if I want, whereas the HP05 took a collective beating without bogging too much at all.

I'm not sure what the headspeed was, but like I said, it was about the same as my C05/9T setup.

I'd love to see a 3D-capable micro that's the size of the one in the picture you posted That would be quite an engineering feat
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:00 AM   #26
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If the hp05 was perfect and never bogging, then why change to the c05? /i am currently rewinding a c05 with thicker wire. I stuck the motor in the freezer for 2 days and got the stator off. The original was 8 turns wye dual strand 34g wire. The wire I am using is 30 I think. I had to epoxy the whole stator because some of the old wire was glued in and pulling it out exposed metal on the stator. I just epoxied it last night so I hope to start winding today. I plan on 8 turns wye single strand.


I just read the email from asteroid design. They offer the flashing of escs. I asked if he could do walkera esc and he said it would cost 6 bucks and a hours worth of labor. And he said that the code might not work with a minicp.They do offer the flash on the esc you guys are using and its supposed to eliminate "The Steve" and give the governer mode.But it might not work with walkera, he doesnt know. Why would it not work? The whole point of the steve is to convert the signal,the mini doesnt need the signal converted, does it?
He did mention that the flash works great on 14,000 rpm motors, not so good on the c05
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:55 AM   #27
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Why would it not work? The whole point of the steve is to convert the signal,the mini doesnt need the signal converted, does it?
The motor signal is PWM whereas the ESC is looking for a digital servo type signal, at least as far as I can tell and will be able to verify later today.

That said, TheSteves converter is a digital micro-controller so while the micro-controller more often is used with digital input, a PWM signal can, depending on the relative bias of the circuit, be treated as a pseudo digital signal.

And, if one component usually accepting a digital signal as input, the mirco-controller, can accept and work with a PWM signal, there doesn't seem to be any reason why another component usually accepting a digital signal as input, the ESC, can't do the same if the code supports it.

The 'maybe it will work' part though is troubling as I'd like to be flying this instead of shipping its parts off to wherever with unknown results.

I've got enough unknowns already!

The self governed functionality sounds intriguing though!
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:28 PM   #28
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If Thesteve works than the BLheli Flashed ESC's should work fine ( I dont keep up on the Genius/Mini, and figured everyone was using the Walkera ESC which is Negative PWM triggered), tapping signal from the same point, I say it "might" work because I dont know of anyone who has tried it yet. The BLheli code accepts 1 through 8 Khz PWM input Positive or Negative, and automatically learns the frequency when it sees a signal, I believe the Walkera's are 2 Khz, but have no way of confirming this on the Genius/Mini CP.

I will gladly donate a flashed 7A to anyone willing to try it out, for the sake of knowing for sure, BLheli code has been a game changer for brushless on the MCPx, would be nice to know it works on the Mini as well.

Dylan
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:07 PM   #29
itsmillertime0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mescalinedream View Post
If the hp05 was perfect and never bogging, then why change to the c05? /i am currently rewinding a c05 with thicker wire. I stuck the motor in the freezer for 2 days and got the stator off. The original was 8 turns wye dual strand 34g wire. The wire I am using is 30 I think. I had to epoxy the whole stator because some of the old wire was glued in and pulling it out exposed metal on the stator. I just epoxied it last night so I hope to start winding today. I plan on 8 turns wye single strand.


I just read the email from asteroid design. They offer the flashing of escs. I asked if he could do walkera esc and he said it would cost 6 bucks and a hours worth of labor. And he said that the code might not work with a minicp.They do offer the flash on the esc you guys are using and its supposed to eliminate "The Steve" and give the governer mode.But it might not work with walkera, he doesnt know. Why would it not work? The whole point of the steve is to convert the signal,the mini doesnt need the signal converted, does it?
He did mention that the flash works great on 14,000 rpm motors, not so good on the c05
If it's only 8 turns I have some high temp 28g that might fit. I planned on trying it out but bent my bell trying to get the shaft out. I suppose I still can and will just have to swap bells once I get a new motor. Maybe 7 turns wye or 12 turns delta for a higher kv in the 13k range.


[/hijack]
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylwad View Post
The BLheli code accepts 1 through 8 Khz PWM input Positive or Negative, and automatically learns the frequency when it sees a signal, I believe the Walkera's are 2 Khz, but have no way of confirming this on the Genius/Mini CP.
I can confirm, they are 2k, or 1.99khz by my o-scope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylwad View Post
I will gladly donate a flashed 7A to anyone willing to try it out, for the sake of knowing for sure, BLheli code has been a game changer for brushless on the MCPx, would be nice to know it works on the Mini as well.

Dylan
Count me in!

I've got replacement FETs coming for the XP-7A I have but to be honest, I'm not NOT impressed with the Oversky ESC by any stretch of the imagination and consider it more like an RTF, they send you the parts but you have to rework them all to make them functional and reliable.

One thing though, I'd be a bad candidate for anything other than seeing if it will work or not as I'm not near the pilot that CX2Pilot or JonBaillie are so were I you, either of those two would be whom I'd send one for testing to.

That's the altruistic me, the selfish me says, why hasn't it shipped yet???
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:00 PM   #31
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Here is an idea...

Dylan,

If you want you can send a flashed XP-7A to Heli-opolis to test out.
I have a NIP XP-7A that I can send to you to flash.
I'll put it though some heavy work doing some hard flying, flipping, rolls, pitch pumps, etc.
This would be a good test as two people will have tested out the flashed ESC for the Genius/Mini.

Tom
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:01 PM   #32
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I would so love one!

When I started out with Nitro's, having more power made control, at least for me, seem easier.

I noticed a change in performance, even at the level that I fly currently, when I went from the stock motor to the mCPX I got from InTheWay.

For the time that I had the Oversky board working, before frying a few FETs for unknown reasons, and on the bird and spooled up in my hand, I could tell that the power it has with the HP-05S is a significant change and were the upgrade easier, truly PnP WITH full programming capabilities, it would be the first must-have upgrade everyone with the bird would likely have on their list.

Going BL shouldn't be as hard as it is.

Don't get me wrong, for me, the tinkering is almost 90% of the enjoyment but for wider applicability to create a wider market hopefully supporting more development like you mention, making these things as stupid-simple as possible is a must.

Therefore, if you wanted to test the stupid-simple aspect of using one, I'm your man!
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:00 AM   #33
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Itsmillertime, Everytime I try wiring this stator it shorts out. The 5min epoxy was too thick in spots so I had to take it all off and re-dip it. Then there is a mad dash to wipe the thick spots of epoxy away before it dries, taking care not to take too much off. The red wire that I kept trying was the same thickness of the yellowish tan & red wires leading to the tail of the mini. I am unsure how thick that is. That thickness of wire is impossible to get 8 turns. 28awg would be even more impossible!

I unwound a brushed motor with thinner wire(but still thicker then the original 34g) and managed 7 turns. I have 2 phases done with no shorts. Everytime I try winding the last phase I get shorts. My fingers are blistered, and I want to throw the stator. I have tried winding these last three stator teeth with light pressure but then I cant get 7 turns in. I tried nail polish and still get shorts. I try to pinpoint the area on the last two teeth where it shorts but it does it in different spots each time.

Even when i do get this motor wired up I am stuck. I failed to ask the guy what size shaft the motor had before he sent it. It is 1.5mm and I have only a 1mm id pinion. I could take the bell off my c05(with the 1mm shaft) in my mini but it is such a hassle. I am using the pinion off the genius motor and while pressing it on I bent the shaft. I managed to bend it back but I am scared to ruin my only c05 motor. Plus my c05 wires are short and fragile. i had to solder on longer larger wires.

I talked to Dylan from asteroid designs. He has a few c05 stators lying around he can sell me. I think I might have to buy a few since adding more epoxy to this stator will make it too thick.Its my only option though for now. I need to take a pic of what this stator looks like with 4 stators full of wire. The wire is flush with the sides! I wish I could figure out what size wire I am using. i would also like to know what kv 7 turns will be.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:58 PM   #34
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Hi, everyone I know this might be off topic but I have to ask. I have been winding 30awg on a HP03T. How can I check for shorts? Some work for a while then they just kind of beep and or sputtered. I have 1 successful attempt.

I don't want to hijack the thread so if someone could pm me please that would be great.

Thanks, Jack

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Old 04-27-2012, 08:13 AM   #35
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YOu check for shorts after each stator tooth is wound. The way to check is by putting the voltmeter to check for ohms(resistance) and put the black or red cable from the voltmeter to one end of the wire you wrapped the stator tooth with and the other voltmeter cable should be touching the stators metal parts. Sometimes the enamel will come off the wire you are wrapping the motor with. The exposed wire will touch a part of the stator that isnt coated in the green stuff. That will create a short. You can also screw up a motor by having the wire from one stator with enamel coating missing touch another wire thats wrapped on the tooth next to it. To check for that then read the following:

Say you have a 9 tooth stator. You just wrapped 3 teeth with one wire and checked with the voltmeter. Then you get a new wire and start wiring up the next three teeth. After wrapping the first tooth , check the wire to the stator with a voltmeter. Now you will have to check that same wire that you just wrapped and put the other cord of the multimeter onto one end of the first wire that you wrapped the first 3 teeth with. Do this after every tooth.

You dont want to check for shorts after wiring up the whole motor. Do it one tooth of the stator at a time.


I managed to rewind the c05 and could only get 7 turns of what I think is 28g wire. The reason why I think I had used 28g is because i spoke to someone who had wired theres with 30g. He had said that he could get 8 turns of 30g with some room left over. I had no room after 7 turns. I posted a new thread in the minicp section with pictures.

I flew the new rewind with the same pinion as my stock c05 and the performance was the same but the battery was warm on the rewind. If I had 35c batteries then I could see what the performance would be. I shipped the motor out yesterday to its owner who has a mcpx. He will get back with me on how much power it has. I dont suggest trying to wire it with 7 turns of 28g like i did. it took me 2 days of constant winding and unwinding because of shorts. I had to dip the stator in epoxy because its coating had come off in spots. The epoxy was too thick the first time, second time was a tiny bit better. After completing the wind, the wires werent flush with the sides of the stator. I had to pry and push then epoxy them in so the magnets on the bell/can wouldnt hit them. I plan on getting some stators to rewire , about 5 and will post the data when I can.

If you do rewind the c05 I suggest 32g or 30. Try for 9 turns, that way you will get more power and longer battery life! Maybe just a tiny bit over stock since 32 or 30g isnt twice as thick as 34g which you have to contend with. The stock wind is not one but 2 wires wrapped on each stator. two 34g wire is equal to??? Its not equal to a single strand of 30 or 32 for that matter!

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