Co-Pilot II - How To, Made Simple!

[nightflyr]

First question I ask is ..
Is this bird a fbl or flybar?
Second question.
And I know the answer but will ask it anyways ...
Are you 100% absolutely sure your wiring is correct..IE each Rx to CPII , CPII to servo lines are where they needs to go and that positive and negatives are correct?
3rd....
Are your sensors plugged into the correct ports on the avionic computer along with the correct placement of your servo leads...( very easy to be off by one ) and polarity?

[jdd1]

Duplicate post deleted.

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by JDFiend

Hi,

I just installed Co pilot ll on my 450 Trex (clone.) I'm having some problems getting Co pilot to function properly, and I was hoping that someone here could help me figure it out.

The heli is set up properly, and I can do a nice stable hover when co pilot is turned OFF.

When I turn Co pilot ON after setup and Preflight check, the swashplate tilts to the extreme left (while still on the ground.) If I apply throttle, the heli immediately wants to tip over to the left.

I'm using a DX6i (DSMX version) and I have the On-Off running through the Gear-Gyro channel. My Off position is set to 0% in the Tx, and the On position is set to 100% in the Tx. Mode is set to GYRO.

When I do my PreFlight setup with the programmer, my Pitch and Roll values don't show Zero. My angles are usually showing 2-3 degrees on pitch and roll.

The Co pilot appears to be functioning. If I move my hands around the main sensor, the servos will move, and the swash will move into different positions as I move my hand around the sensor.

Here is my problem in short: When Co pilot is turned ON, I cannot get a level swash. I've tried different ROLL ANGLE values in the PREFERENCES--FLIGHT ANGLES menu, and it tips my swash to the extreme right.

Can anyone offer any advice on what I might be doing wrong? Am I missing a step somewhere in the programming setup values??? ( I should add that I've also gone through the QUICK SETUP to calibrate my sticks and the sensors.)

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Joe

Hi Joe,
In addition to the questions that Night asked:
1. is the CPII a new unit or one that has be installed and flown successfully in the past?
2. is the CPII equipped with a vertical sensor?
3. with the vertical sensor viewed with the arrow pointing up, are the leads coming from it on the left? They should. This is to double check that the label was not affixed to the sensor upside down which is unlikely but possible.
4. is the label on the main sensor facing skyward and did you answer yes to that question during Quick setup?
5. does the pigtail from the main sensor point toward the from of the helicopter?
6. and if yes, did you tell CPII during Quick setup that sensor 2 and 3 are facing forward?
7. if out in the open, you hold the helicopter at eye level or above and tilt the helicopter forward and backward and right and left, does the swash move correctly or does it still travel to the extreme right as stated?

These are just some areas to check out and verify that may help identify you problem.

FYI notes:
1. Quick setup can be performed inside you work area, you do not need to be out in an open area.
2. It is normal for the pitch and roll numbers seen in the PreFlight window of the programmer not to read zero, even out in an open area. Those number will continually fluctuate and will change dramatically if the hand is waved around the main and or vertical sensors.
3. If the helicopter is FBL then be certain that AutoTrim is set to Off in preferences or during Quick setup.

Jack

[Howard Matos]

Hi,

Can you list what is connected to the CPIICM and on what channel, SVO1 SVO2, etc. Also, please list the outputs of CPIICM that are connected to your receiver. Have you tried to redo the setup and use the autotrim and not set angles? Thanks.

[JDFiend]

Thanks guys for taking the time to help me out. I'll try to answer all of the questions above.

Nightflyyr: This is a Flybar heli. I've double checked (and triple checked) my wiring, and I'm certain that everything is wired correctly. The black/brown (negative wires face outward toward the CPll label.)

jdd1:Here are the answers to your questions.

1. This is a slightly used CPll system that I purchased from another Helifreak member, but he guaranteed me that it was working when I purchased it, and even offered to refund my money if it was a bad unit.

2. YES. There is a vertical sensor.

3. YES. The cable on the vertical sensor comes out of the left side.

4. YES. The main sensor is on top of the tail boom, label facing upwards. I answered Yes to this in the set up.

5. YES. Cable from main sensor faces front.

6. YES. I answered 2 and 3 face forward.

7. I will take the heli out to the softball field again tomorrow and repeat this test above eye level.

Howard:

This is how my servos are set up. (I'm using a DX6i Tx and a Spektrum AR6100e Rx.)

Left front servo goes to SVO1 on CPll. CPll RCV1 wire goes to Aileron on Rx.
Back single servo goes to SVO2 on CPll. CPll RCV2 wire goes to Elevator on Rx.
Right front servo (pitch) goes to SVO3 on CPll. RCV3 wire goes to Aux on Rx.
Gyro gain wire goes to SVO4 on CPll with signal wire facing away from label.
RCV4 wire on CPll is NOT connected.
ON/OFF wire on CPll is connected to Gear on Rx.

I will have to take the heli out tomorrow to retest my setup.
I don't recall seeing an autotrim option in the programmer; or does this just mean to leave the flight angles at 0 degrees?

Perhaps another thing I can try is to change the servo inputs on the CPll. It's my understanding that it doesn't matter which servo plugs into a specific number, as long as the corresponding output wire goes to the proper channel on the receiver. Is this correct?

Thanks again for your help with this. Feel free to make suggestions, or let me know if I've done something wrong.

I'm fairly comfortable flying my Blade SR, but I would like to use CoPilot as a tool for learning to fly bigger birds such as 450 and up.

Thank you,
Joe

[nightflyr]

One other item to look into..
Exactly how are you powering your electronics?
Your supply may be at it's max output and causing the issue

[JDFiend]

Well... I rechecked all of my wiring, reprogrammed my quick setup, and flight mode, and headed out to a Bigger park today with a huge soccer field. I had at least 100 yards of open space in all directions around me.

I'm still getting the same result. When CPll is OFF, my swash is perfectly level. When I turn CPll ON, my swash tilts all the way to the extreme left. If I hold the heli above my head and slowly tip it to the left, my swash quickly tilts the opposite way to the extreme right once the heli is tipped past about 45 degrees along its longitudinal axis.

There appears to be nothing that I can do to get a level swash when CPll is turned on.

Is it possible that maybe my main sensor is bad?

Are there any other possible things that I may be doing wrong?

If one of my sensors or components is bad, is there a way I can track it down, so perhaps I can replace the bad component?

Nightflyyr: I'm using a Zippy battery, 11.1 volt, 2200 mah, 20c.

Thanks again for any advice or suggestions!

Joe

[nightflyr]

Not your battery.. are you using a separate BEC or are you running off the internal of the ESC.
If it is a 3A rated BEC you may well have breached its limit

[JDFiend]

Nightflyr,

My esc is one that I got from Hobbypartz a couple years ago. I think it's a 30 amp Volcano esc with an external 3 amp UBEC. Could this be causing my issue? If so, could you recommend a proper esc?
Joe

[nightflyr]

Suggest a 5A BEC I believe Hobby wing makes one.

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by JDFiend

Well... I rechecked all of my wiring, reprogrammed my quick setup, and flight mode, and headed out to a Bigger park today with a huge soccer field. I had at least 100 yards of open space in all directions around me.

I'm still getting the same result. When CPll is OFF, my swash is perfectly level. When I turn CPll ON, my swash tilts all the way to the extreme left. If I hold the heli above my head and slowly tip it to the left, my swash quickly tilts the opposite way to the extreme right once the heli is tipped past about 45 degrees along its longitudinal axis.

There appears to be nothing that I can do to get a level swash when CPll is turned on.

Is it possible that maybe my main sensor is bad?

Are there any other possible things that I may be doing wrong?

If one of my sensors or components is bad, is there a way I can track it down, so perhaps I can replace the bad component?

Nightflyyr: I'm using a Zippy battery, 11.1 volt, 2200 mah, 20c.

Thanks again for any advice or suggestions!

Joe

HI Joe,

From you descriptions of the way CPII is responding it sounds like CPII thinks it is upside down. That could be result if the vertical sensor was bad.

I think you maybe able to check this at home with helicopter setting on the table.

Try this:
1. Power up Tx and Rx.
2. Obtain a package or two from the freezer (a TV dinner works for me) and place it above the vertical and on top of the main sensor. If the two sensors are close enough, one pkg. will work for both, if not, use two packages.
3. Turn CPII On, the swash should remain level or near level. Tilt the TV dinner slightly and the swash should also tilt slightly.
4. But if the swash still tilts to the extreme then something is wrong in setup or with one or more of the sensors.
5. Now if the swash is tilting to the extreme, do this, move one of the TV dinners to a position under the vertical sensor and see if the swash levels. (leave one of the TV dinners laying on top of the main sensor during this test) By placing the TV dinner below the vertical sensor you are fooling CPII into thinking the helicopter is upside down.
6. If all components are OK and setup is OK then in step 5 the swash should tilt to the extreme, attempting to roll the helicopter upright. But if the swash stays near level now then the vertical sensor or setup is bad.

The above sets may help you to identify the area where the problem originates, components or setup.

Also, it has not been mentioned before but check and verify that all six IR sensors are clean. No protective film or contaminant of any of the them.

Would it be possible for you to include a picture or two of your setup?

Jack

[Bri]

Originally Posted by jdd1

HI Joe,

From you descriptions of the way CPII is responding it sounds like CPII thinks it is upside down. That could be result if the vertical sensor was bad.

I think you maybe able to check this at home with helicopter setting on the table.

Try this:
1. Power up Tx and Rx.
2. Obtain a package or two from the freezer (a TV dinner works for me) and place it above the vertical and on top of the main sensor. If the two sensors are close enough, one pkg. will work for both, if not, use two packages.
3. Turn CPII On, the swash should remain level or near level. Tilt the TV dinner slightly and the swash should also tilt slightly.
4. But if the swash still tilts to the extreme then something is wrong in setup or with one or more of the sensors.
5. Now if the swash is tilting to the extreme, do this, move one of the TV dinners to a position under the vertical sensor and see if the swash levels. (leave one of the TV dinners laying on top of the main sensor during this test) By placing the TV dinner below the vertical sensor you are fooling CPII into thinking the helicopter is upside down.
6. If all components are OK and setup is OK then in step 5 the swash should tilt to the extreme, attempting to roll the helicopter upright. But if the swash stays near level now then the vertical sensor or setup is bad.

The above sets may help you to identify the area where the problem originates, components or setup.

Also, it has not been mentioned before but check and verify that all six IR sensors are clean. No protective film or contaminant of any of the them.

Would it be possible for you to include a picture or two of your setup?

Jack

Sounds like a very reasonable and logical home test there Jack.



.

[JDFiend]

jdd1,

Thanks for the great advice. I did the "TV dinner test" and my swash was leveling in step 5, indicating a possible bad vertical sensor.

Since the vertical sensor is an "optional" sensor, I disconnected it and did the set up and Field Calibration in my backyard. It appears to be hovering beautifully!

Just a couple of questions:

Would you recommend purchasing a new vertical sensor? Does the CPll work better if I use one?

Also: When I do my Preflight check, I get a screen that says (Battery = 5.23 volts, WARNING! < 4.16)
Can anyone tell me what this means?

Thank you everyone for your help with my issue! I can't wait to get back to the soccer park and finally Maiden fly this bird! It's supposed to be 70 degrees here during Thanksgiving week. Perfect flying weather!

Joe

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by JDFiend

jdd1,

Thanks for the great advice. I did the "TV dinner test" and my swash was leveling in step 5, indicating a possible bad vertical sensor.

Since the vertical sensor is an "optional" sensor, I disconnected it and did the set up and Field Calibration in my backyard. It appears to be hovering beautifully!

Just a couple of questions:

Would you recommend purchasing a new vertical sensor? Does the CPll work better if I use one?

Also: When I do my Preflight check, I get a screen that says (Battery = 5.23 volts, WARNING! < 4.16)
Can anyone tell me what this means?

Thank you everyone for your help with my issue! I can't wait to get back to the soccer park and finally Maiden fly this bird! It's supposed to be 70 degrees here during Thanksgiving week. Perfect flying weather!

Joe

Hi Joe,

If I understand you correctly, in step 5, with the TV dinner below the vertical sensor, the swash plate does not tilt to the extreme but stays near level but if you move the TV dinner above the vertical sensor and the swash tilts to the extreme, if that is correct, then it sounds like the vertical sensor is OK. Correction, please disregard the following statement that are in parentheses (In that case I suspect you may have answered the question incorrectly in quick setup "Sensor Label is Facing? >Sky". Suggestion, try doing the Quick setup again and answer "Sensor Label is Facing? >Ground" and gain check out the operation of CPII. If this corrects the problem then either the label or the internal electronics are turned upside down.) Instead flip the Vertical sensor upside down and reattach with the wires still exiting the Vertical sensor in the same direction.

Yes, I think the Vertical sensor is worth the expense. It is required for the 3D modes to be used and it also allows CPII to calibrate for the weather/temperature change at the beginning of a flight and continually during the flight.

As for the battery message. The first number tells what the current battery voltage to the Rx and CPII. The second number displays the lowest voltage that the Rx and CPII received during the flight. In your case the voltage dropped to 4.16 volts. That is a pretty low voltage being supplied to the Rx and CPII. It maybe that your ESC or ESC/BEC combo is not providing sufficient voltage all the time during the flight.

Hope this helps,
Jack

[JDFiend]

jdd1,

I tried to reconnect the vertical sensor, and reprogrammed my setup, preferences, etc. This time I set the main sensor to <FACING GROUND> I'm still having the same problem where the swash tillts to the extreme with CPll ON.

The only way I can get a stable hover with CPll is to disconnect the vertical sensor, and do the field calibration.

I did just think of something, though. Is it possible that the vertical sensor could have the sensors upside down???

I mentioned earlier that I purchased this used from another member that assured me it was working. When I received it, the label was missing on the vertical sensor, so I just installed it with the wires coming from the left side of the sensor. What if I try installing the vertical sensor upside down, with the wires coming from the right side? Could this possibly cure my problem?

I will post some pictures of my set up later tonight. I have to charge up my camera.

Thanks again,
JOE

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by JDFiend

jdd1,

I tried to reconnect the vertical sensor, and reprogrammed my setup, preferences, etc. This time I set the main sensor to <FACING GROUND> I'm still having the same problem where the swash tillts to the extreme with CPll ON.

The only way I can get a stable hover with CPll is to disconnect the vertical sensor, and do the field calibration.

I did just think of something, though. Is it possible that the vertical sensor could have the sensors upside down???

I mentioned earlier that I purchased this used from another member that assured me it was working. When I received it, the label was missing on the vertical sensor, so I just installed it with the wires coming from the left side of the sensor. What if I try installing the vertical sensor upside down, with the wires coming from the right side? Could this possibly cure my problem?

I will post some pictures of my set up later tonight. I have to charge up my camera.

Thanks again,
JOE

Hi Joe,

I misspoke in my previous post. There is not question in setup that allows you to change the Vertical sensor direction. My bad.

Yes, to you question about installing the Vertical sensor upside down to it's current position.

I suspect this is the cause of you problem, the Vertical sensor is pointing in the wrong direction.

Let us know the outcome,

Jack

[JDFiend]

hi guys,

Well I turned the vertical sensor "upside down" (the wires are now coming out of the right side of the sensor: see photo.)

I did my maiden flight yesterday, and everything seems to be working on the CPll so far. I can't wait to get a few more batteries so I can do some real flying!

Thanks everyone for all of your help and advice on this. I was getting completely frustrated.

I wish the guy I bought this from would have told me about the vertical sensor issue. It would have saved me about 2 weeks of frustration, and almost giving up!

Thanks again, and I'm sure I'll have future questions here for you experts! lol

Joe

PS. The photo was taken before I turned the sensor upside down.

[nightflyr]

Had you posted that pic first thing..
Would have made things quite easy....if you notice the 2 small openings, one at the top and one on the bottom, those usually face the mounting surface.. you only had to rotate bottom to top to correct the trouble.

Glad to hear you have it sorted out

[JDFiend]

I finally have my co-pilot working properly. What a great confidence builder when learning to fly larger CP helis!

I'm having one small problem. After 2-3 minutes of hovering, my motor cuts out completely. Fortunately I was only hovering about 2-3 feet high so I didn't have any damage.

After the motor cuts out, it will spool right back up again for another 30-60 seconds.

Is this considered a "brown out?" How can I cure this problem?

I am using a brand new Turnigy battery 2200 mah, 25 C.
I'm also using this E-Flite ESC: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...s-esc-EFLA1030

Do I still need an external BEC?

Joe

[nightflyr]

Could be a faulty ESC or it is going into thermal overload..
Might try an external BEC to ease the load on the ESC