Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-20-2012, 02:20 AM   #1
EEngineer
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Default 600SX Tail Rotor Questions

I have the 600SX bundle with JR12X Tx....MKS 970's on the cyclic, 990 on the tail....

And using the MIK4022 Carbon Servo Arm, 20 mm, JR

And with 100 CW/CCW with the Mini V setup menu

My questions are:

When I apply full left/right rudder, using the arm hole distance specified in the manual, it appears as if the rudder pitch deflection has exceeded 90 deg. ....when looking at their combined relative pitch angle with full deflection...

I don't think this is right.......

Was going to reduce the pitch slider ends...even though there is room without binding at the extremes that I described above...I mean if you have more than 45 deg. deflection/tail blade...that's the extreme

I guess I should move in a hole on the servo arm.....even though there is plenty of room on the pitch slider....

Thanks for any insight.
__________________
Logo 600 SXs, 700XXtreme, 800XXtreme w/X8's, JR12X...verify everything 2X
EEngineer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:54 AM   #2
bavci_0655
Registered Users
 
Posts: 590
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ankara, Turkey
Default

Don't do this without flying. You can get weak tail if you reduce tail limits. Vbar shows this on tail optimizer. Do pyro on both sides with ending hard stops. Then determine if tail limits are too much or not.
__________________
LOGO 600 SX [ Pyro 700-52M | Scorp. Commander V 130A OPTO | SK720BE+GPS | BLS255HV & BLS256HV ]
LOGO 600 SX
[ HKII-4225-500KV | Scorp. Commander V 130A OPTO | VBar 5.3 Pro | BLS255HV & BLS256HV ]

bavci_0655 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #3
ZS-JAF
Registered Users
 
Posts: 46
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Houston
Default

On both of my 600's. 16mm hole. I am using between 100-110. I have .5 MM space between the tail hub and box at full deflection. I don't worry about blade pitch, the more pitch the better right?
ZS-JAF is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:41 PM   #4
Kalpazan
Registered Users
 
Posts: 417
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Burgas, Bulgaria
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZS-JAF View Post
On both of my 600's. 16mm hole. I am using between 100-110. I have .5 MM space between the tail hub and box at full deflection. I don't worry about blade pitch, the more pitch the better right?
Mind you that too much pitch in the tail blades can stress the tail rotor and reduce its performance significantly.
__________________
LOGO 600SX: JIVE 100LV, HKIII-4025-1100, BLS451+BLS251, VBAR PRO, EDGE 600, EDGE 105
GOBLIN 500: CC ICE75, QUANTUM-4115-1200, DS510M+DS650, MINI VBAR, SAB 500, SAB 85
Kalpazan is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #5
ZS-JAF
Registered Users
 
Posts: 46
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Houston
Default

How much space do you have between hub and tail box at full throw? I have always set up my heli's to get the maximum travel. I assume the VBAR does not ever comand that much but it is there if it wanted to. What HS are you using? I am 1600-1800 on the SE and 2100-2350 on the SX with great tail hold on both.
ZS-JAF is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 03:06 PM   #6
MaSt0RaS
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Greece
Default

Guys on my 3d i use 105 tail bladeso n the SX is there a need for 105 or 95 are ok??
__________________
AP Logo600SX:Pyro 700-52 -Vbar-3x610 -bls251-Vbar GOv-Hw PL120HV-Thundepower
Logo6003dXera 560 - VbarGov - 3x8717 - Bls251 - Hobbywing PL 120Hv-Thunderpower
Cinestar 8 Cs gimbal - HoverFlypro - Tiger motors 710-Radians-Turnigy Plush 40A
MaSt0RaS is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 03:55 PM   #7
bavci_0655
Registered Users
 
Posts: 590
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ankara, Turkey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalpazan View Post
Mind you that too much pitch in the tail blades can stress the tail rotor and reduce its performance significantly.
Yes, I know that. I have a problem with tail twisting on my 600 SX. I have a thread on Vbar forum. Mr.Mel explains this.
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=477019
__________________
LOGO 600 SX [ Pyro 700-52M | Scorp. Commander V 130A OPTO | SK720BE+GPS | BLS255HV & BLS256HV ]
LOGO 600 SX
[ HKII-4225-500KV | Scorp. Commander V 130A OPTO | VBar 5.3 Pro | BLS255HV & BLS256HV ]

bavci_0655 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:49 PM   #8
Kalpazan
Registered Users
 
Posts: 417
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Burgas, Bulgaria
Default

bavci, I follow your thread on Vbar forum and if you ask me you should not need full deflection to stop a small input left or right. I believe your problem is binding somewhere in the tail.
__________________
LOGO 600SX: JIVE 100LV, HKIII-4025-1100, BLS451+BLS251, VBAR PRO, EDGE 600, EDGE 105
GOBLIN 500: CC ICE75, QUANTUM-4115-1200, DS510M+DS650, MINI VBAR, SAB 500, SAB 85
Kalpazan is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 07:47 AM   #9
sgrim80
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSt0RaS View Post
Guys on my 3d i use 105 tail blades on the SX is there a need for 105 or 95 are ok??
I'm not aware of any changes that were made the would result in using 95 on a SX if you were using 105s on your 3d. I'm planning on using 105s when I get my SX as I liked the feeling of 105s better on my 6003d.
__________________
Team Mikado USA!!!
Team Scorpion!
Logo 600SX - Scorpion 4035-560, 10s 4400 packs
Logo 690SX - Stock Scorpion motor, 12s 4500 packs

Last edited by sgrim80; 12-24-2012 at 09:01 PM..
sgrim80 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:58 PM   #10
MaSt0RaS
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Greece
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgrim80 View Post
I'm not aware of any changes that were made the would result in using 95 on a SX if you were using 105s on your 3d. I'm planning on using 105s when I get my SX as I liked the feeling of 105s better on my 6003d.
Thank you Steve.. on my 3d i have Metal Grips..

YOu have the 105 with stock tail??
__________________
AP Logo600SX:Pyro 700-52 -Vbar-3x610 -bls251-Vbar GOv-Hw PL120HV-Thundepower
Logo6003dXera 560 - VbarGov - 3x8717 - Bls251 - Hobbywing PL 120Hv-Thunderpower
Cinestar 8 Cs gimbal - HoverFlypro - Tiger motors 710-Radians-Turnigy Plush 40A
MaSt0RaS is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 09:00 PM   #11
sgrim80
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Default

I don't have an SX yet. I had Quick UK grips on my 3d and I was running 105s and liked them better than 95s. I'm getting a SX as soon as I sell off my 600 3d cf airframe and I plan on running 105s on that because from what I understand its ok to do so on a 600SX because the tail hub was upgraded.
__________________
Team Mikado USA!!!
Team Scorpion!
Logo 600SX - Scorpion 4035-560, 10s 4400 packs
Logo 690SX - Stock Scorpion motor, 12s 4500 packs
sgrim80 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 12:53 AM   #12
Kalpazan
Registered Users
 
Posts: 417
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Burgas, Bulgaria
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgrim80 View Post
I don't have an SX yet. I had Quick UK grips on my 3d and I was running 105s and liked them better than 95s. I'm getting a SX as soon as I sell off my 600 3d cf airframe and I plan on running 105s on that because from what I understand its ok to do so on a 600SX because the tail hub was upgraded.
Yup, tail is stronger and it now uses 3mm screw to hold the blades. I am also going to try 105mm blades because my understanding is that they are better for low RPM use.
__________________
LOGO 600SX: JIVE 100LV, HKIII-4025-1100, BLS451+BLS251, VBAR PRO, EDGE 600, EDGE 105
GOBLIN 500: CC ICE75, QUANTUM-4115-1200, DS510M+DS650, MINI VBAR, SAB 500, SAB 85
Kalpazan is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 06:31 AM   #13
HeliRush
Registered Users
 
Posts: 287
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EEngineer View Post
I have the 600SX bundle with JR12X Tx....MKS 970's on the cyclic, 990 on the tail....

And using the MIK4022 Carbon Servo Arm, 20 mm, JR

And with 100 CW/CCW with the Mini V setup menu

My questions are:

When I apply full left/right rudder, using the arm hole distance specified in the manual, it appears as if the rudder pitch deflection has exceeded 90 deg. ....when looking at their combined relative pitch angle with full deflection...

I don't think this is right.......

Was going to reduce the pitch slider ends...even though there is room without binding at the extremes that I described above...I mean if you have more than 45 deg. deflection/tail blade...that's the extreme

I guess I should move in a hole on the servo arm.....even though there is plenty of room on the pitch slider....

Thanks for any insight.
(Unless they have changed the dimensions on the SX pitch slider)

My understanding is that the tail setup in the VBar should be used to setup the limits to keep the tail from binding in each direction not to set deflection or pitch. Different servos may have different amounts of travel.

I use servo arm kit MIK4258 there is no need to change the distance on the servo arm. On the set you are using MIK4022 if I remember correctly the tail should use the 14mm hole on the arm which I believe is the inner most hole.

If you have the tail servo centered and the pitch slider arm at 90* at center then you should adjust the travel cw/ccw to give it total throw without binding. As long as there are no large discrepancies between the two directions you should be fine.
__________________
Can't means "Don't want to"
Align T-Rex 450 Pro VBar 5.2
Mikado Logo 600SE VBar 5.2
HeliRush is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 11:56 AM   #14
EEngineer
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Default

"On the set you are using MIK4022 if I remember correctly the tail should use the 14mm hole on the arm which I believe is the inner most hole."

Yes, Mik 4022 on the inner hole....as per the manual.

MSK BLS990 servo centered, pitch slider centered, with tail pushrod adjusted to give ~2 deg. pitch to counter torque.....

But, using total throw, each tail blade's pitch is greater than 45 deg.

Seems too much.

Adjusted it, using the Mini-V S/W, such that they are just < 45 deg. each....

I'm within the adjustment range.....like 90(left rudder) and 95(right rudder)....

Hopefully, that will be a good starting point...and can go from there.
__________________
Logo 600 SXs, 700XXtreme, 800XXtreme w/X8's, JR12X...verify everything 2X
EEngineer is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com