Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 800 Class Helicopters


800 Class Helicopters 800 Class Helicopters


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2012, 01:45 PM   #1
TdB
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Default Stretching a 700 with new 800E parts?

Hi guys,

Can someone confirm if the following part fits the 700E (V2) frames?
http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product...oducts_id=4509

Looking for stretching it with all other required 800E parts (boom, torque tube + bearings, tail case). This would allow spinning Edge 813 blades more easily.

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Tim
__________________
450 Pro - Mini V-Bar V5.3 with governor - Mikado 450 head
S3156 - DS520 - Align ESC & Motor - Align 325 3G - Edge 60 mm tail - Hyperion 2200 35C
TdB is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 06:30 PM   #2
350Z_Al
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,216
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Default

What about the 800 tail boom w/ torque tube that Align sold well before the 800 came out. This fits a stock 700 just fine, no need for the tail case.
__________________
Align 450 PRO DFC 4S KDE 450XF // Blade 450X 450MX, 3GX, Savox // Align 450 Sport V2 Airwolf
Align 600EFL PRO, DFC, 3GX, KDE
Align CHP DL 800, XERA 4530LE, ICE160HV, AR7200BX, SB-2271MG, SB-2272SG, KDE, Lynx, 115s
Thunder Power 65C LiPo & JR 12X
350Z_Al is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 05:03 AM   #3
TdB
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 350Z_Al View Post
What about the 800 tail boom w/ torque tube that Align sold well before the 800 came out. This fits a stock 700 just fine, no need for the tail case.
Thanks, I know that.
Unfortunately, that combination won't swing the Edge 813 blades with a lot of clearance.
Works fine with the Align 800 blades, but Edge 813 blades are required in this case.

Tim
__________________
450 Pro - Mini V-Bar V5.3 with governor - Mikado 450 head
S3156 - DS520 - Align ESC & Motor - Align 325 3G - Edge 60 mm tail - Hyperion 2200 35C
TdB is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 11:53 AM   #4
martin_
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Default

I did not know that but it looks like the Trekker have an 24 X 915mm boom vs 21.5 X 885mm for the 800 upgrade kit, that is a good catch for Align.
__________________
T-rex 600E pro
T-rex 450L
Coaxial Collective Pitch 550
martin_ is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 02:13 PM   #5
TdB
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Anyone that can comment on this issue?

Tim
__________________
450 Pro - Mini V-Bar V5.3 with governor - Mikado 450 head
S3156 - DS520 - Align ESC & Motor - Align 325 3G - Edge 60 mm tail - Hyperion 2200 35C
TdB is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 09:30 PM   #6
nu66ie
Registered Users
 
Posts: 341
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Default

The 800e tail boom mount will bolt onto the 700e V2 frames. But from there back I think you will need 800e parts because the boom is larger in diameter.

Boom
Torque Tube
Torque Tube Bearing Holders
Rudder Control Rod
Rudder Control Rod support
Rear Tail Case (Torque Tube Unit)
Horizontal Stabilizer Belt


Boom supports are the same, all of the bearings and umbrella gears are the same too. The 800e has a 110T main gear with the new 104T/22T autrotation gear, and newer motor pinion bearing mount.

There are a few more pictures on this thread.

If anyone can add to this please do.
__________________
Goblin 630, T-Rex 700e, Outrage Fusion 50, all with VBar, Blades MCX2, 120SR, Radian Pro, DX8's - HeliBuilderNM
nu66ie is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 03:18 AM   #7
TdB
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Thanks for the comment,

My concern is that the 700e V2 frame is a little narrower, which would make the boom mount not fit.
__________________
450 Pro - Mini V-Bar V5.3 with governor - Mikado 450 head
S3156 - DS520 - Align ESC & Motor - Align 325 3G - Edge 60 mm tail - Hyperion 2200 35C
TdB is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 09:35 AM   #8
sarah1097
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: From Utah, transferred from u of u to u of washington
Default

They are the same width at least with the 700 f3c v2 they are. The reason I know this is because I actually put the 800 tail case in my 700. The tail fins are the same size also the 800 trekker fin literally almost matches the 800 fin except the shape is a little off. however the mounting holes are the same.
sarah1097 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #9
nu66ie
Registered Users
 
Posts: 341
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Default

The main bearing blocks, motor mount, and motor pinion block are the exact same width on the 700e and 800e. It sems like this make the frames the same width? The tail boom mounts on the 700e V2 is 60.79mm and the 800e is 60.98mm. The 800 boom mount has never been installed. Maybe after the compression of the bolts, it may loose the .19mm difference. Just a thought.
__________________
Goblin 630, T-Rex 700e, Outrage Fusion 50, all with VBar, Blades MCX2, 120SR, Radian Pro, DX8's - HeliBuilderNM
nu66ie is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 04:19 PM   #10
TdB
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Default

That's sounds good. Thanks for the clarification.

Tim
__________________
450 Pro - Mini V-Bar V5.3 with governor - Mikado 450 head
S3156 - DS520 - Align ESC & Motor - Align 325 3G - Edge 60 mm tail - Hyperion 2200 35C
TdB is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 09:39 AM   #11
Coolheli
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Mississauga,Ca
Default

Could the same parts be used on 700 nitro?
I would love to try those 800+ blades.
Coolheli is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 10:22 AM   #12
martin_
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolheli View Post
Could the same parts be used on 700 nitro?
I would love to try those 800+ blades.
Yes you can, with the align stretch kit or with the whole trekker parts.

However the trekker parts will not fit the latest 700 Nitro as it have a narrower frame, only the upgrade kit will work.

In all case, use the trekker 800 main shaft and ball link (longer) if you already have the 700 DFC head.
__________________
T-rex 600E pro
T-rex 450L
Coaxial Collective Pitch 550
martin_ is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 09:23 PM   #13
Bat6111
Registered Users
 
Posts: 172
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolheli View Post
Could the same parts be used on 700 nitro?
I would love to try those 800+ blades.
You can use this as a build guideline. My friend and I had the idea to build TREX 800N DFC because we would like to know the characteristic of the 800 nitro motor. We have built it and got it done! Here is the details....

First start off at the tail boom. We use the Align tail boom conversion from 700 to 800 part.



For the blades, we use the Align 800mm that come with the Trekker. Along side with TREX 600N DFC and TREX 450 DFC.



The motor is definitely go with the OS 105HZ-R and Power Boost exhaust pipe but plan to change the pipe to Hatori this weekend.



For the Clutch, we use the Lynx clutch and change the gear set to 700N DFC and add the third bearing block from KDE.



The main rotor head, we use the 700N DFC main rotor head, include swashplate and mainshaft. we also use the 800E linkage rod and change the bearing block to thrusted bearing block from OMG Thailand.



For the cyclic servo, we use Align DS615 x 3 and Align DS655 x 2 one for rudder and one for throttle (will be Align 700HV and Align 750HV soon!), deliver electrical power at 6V to servos and 5.2V to MSH Brain with Gryphon Extreme.



Ignite the motor with Gryphon Auto Booster, just only pop the switch on the transmitter and start up the motor (very fast and convenient).



For the tail, we use the tail case and tail pitch from the 700N DFC. Also, change the tail linkage from plastic to aluminum with bearing from OMG Thailand.



For the tail blades, we use the tail blades from SAB Division 115mm.



That's all with this TREX 800N DFC.

"MOD in Thailand, Tuned by Megaton"







Bat6111 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 09:29 PM   #14
Bat6111
Registered Users
 
Posts: 172
 

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Yes you can, with the align stretch kit or with the whole trekker parts.

However the trekker parts will not fit the latest 700 Nitro as it have a narrower frame, only the upgrade kit will work.

In all case, use the trekker 800 main shaft and ball link (longer) if you already have the 700 DFC head.
The 800E main shaft really does not matter because the difference just only 3mm. It is longer because the tail boom of 800E is bigger than 700 tail boom. 700 tail boom is 21.5mm and 800 tail boom is 24mm. Its fine to use 700 DFC main shaft.
Bat6111 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:19 PM   #15
martin_
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat6111 View Post
The 800E main shaft really does not matter because the difference just only 3mm. It is longer because the tail boom of 800E is bigger than 700 tail boom. 700 tail boom is 21.5mm and 800 tail boom is 24mm. Its fine to use 700 DFC main shaft.
I know, I have all those parts on hand, the 800 Trekker main shaft is actually 10mm higher than the 700 DFC main shaft, so 10mm higher minus 1.25mm if the Trekker boom is used.
__________________
T-rex 600E pro
T-rex 450L
Coaxial Collective Pitch 550
martin_ is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 06:57 AM   #16
FloridaHeli
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Default What about gearing?

I have the old 700 to 800 stretch kit which includes the boom, Torque Tube and servo linkage. I flew it at 1500 head speed by just adjusting the Castle Creations settings. The blade sound is awesome.

However, I'm curious what changes (hence the inclusion in this post) need to be made to the gearing.

What max head speed is needed for sport and 3D flying?

Does the tail speed need changed? If so, how?

How can the 12/115 pinion/main gear ratio be changed? There is not any mesh adjustment for these gears.

Thanks in advance for is.any info you can supply on this.
FloridaHeli is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 11:17 AM   #17
K2Freak
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,738
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Samish Island, WA
Default

Quote:
What max head speed is needed for sport and 3D flying? Does the tail speed need changed? If so, how? How can the 12/115 pinion/main gear ratio be changed? There is not any mesh adjustment for these gears.
Some of this is personal preference, but I'll tell you what I did.

The 800 blades are VERY responsive and definitely make the conversion feel more floaty than any other setup I have had. Guys seem to run the 800 in a wide hs range - 2000 or more (which seems unnecessary, inefficient, and maybe dangerous), and you know of the new trend towards 1200 and lower (which to me seems really cool). The 800 can probably do real slow better than the 700 due to the very large blade chord among other things, but I haven't seen it yet.

I like the performance I get at 1775 and 1850 with 800 blades, an 11T pinion, 112 helical main, and 470 vK motor. I use Mr. Mel's headspeed calculator on readiheli.com - it helps a lot with motor and gear selection and tuning.

What motor do you have? Moving to 800 blades requires a re-evaluation of your gear ratio wrt/ kv and the resulting "sweet spots" - see the HS calculator!

The 112T helical main gear is nice - stronger and quieter than the 115 straight (there is a new black one out now that is supposed to be even better). You are probably going to replace your pinion anyway, unless you replace your motor, so may be a good time for this.

The KDE adjustable motor mount allows you to set to set the gear mesh exactly as you want it - very nice. If you change pinion sizes by much (11T to 14T is the normal range), the KDE mount becomes the only reasonable option.

Tail speed - I wanted the faster tail rotor gear ratio, so I bought the 4.73:1 helical auto / umbrella set. I really like the increased tail authority, and planned to do this before I considered the 800 blades. IMO, slower headspeeds make this upgrade all the more necessary - I consider it a must have for the stretch. Either that or get 150mm tail rotors. 8^)
__________________
700E CHP DL 780mm / VBar Silverline / KDE 700XF / HK-4525 / YGE 160HV / MKS DS660A+ / MKS DS760 / Gryphon Quasar / Scorpion BUG / KDE / Futaba T12Z

97
K2Freak is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 04:37 PM   #18
FloridaHeli
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Default

K2Freak

Now THAT is what I recall as a detailed and informative reply.

I"ve got the Align RCM-BL700M /510KV motor. Had not thought of going down to a lower KV motor to reduce head speed.

I was hoping that the increased boom length would make the change in tail speed unnecessary but I forgot that I might want to lower head speed too. The setup for the CC HV160 ESC is OK with 1500 HS but below that it goes red and says too low. I just test flew it with 690mm blades and love the sound at 1500. Can't wait to hear those extra large Align 800 or a pair of 790 Evolution's that I have beating the air at 1600 rpm or so.

Thanks for all the great info. Now I've got my work cut out for me but, thanks to you, I have the tools to make it happen.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
FloridaHeli is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 800 Class Helicopters


800 Class Helicopters 800 Class Helicopters

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com