Looking for FBL unit that works perfectly with CPII

[nightflyr]

@ work right now, so I can not read through the HD manual to find the specific qoute concerning your question.

[sutty]

Yeah, not to worry night. If you aren't sure off the top of your head, then I'm not sure reading the manual will clear it up. Certainly it says that it will assist by gently ascending to the HD, but I think this is only for the initial ascent. After HD ER it says after two seconds, full collective control is returned to the pilot. No mention is made of height and it just says 'full' collective control, so I don't expect it will do it after an HD ER, if the manual is accurate. Of course we know for sure it makes use of the +-8 degrees of collective, as needed during the ER, but perhaps the gentle ascent is only once per HD initialisation.

Still, I only skim read it, so further reading might offer clarification.

Cheers

Sutty

[nightflyr]

If I remember correctly the soft rise is set to engage if ..
Your under the HD and have some degree of positive pitch on your cyclic after recovery.

[N3M0]

I will be definitly continuing to use the CPII with whatever flybarless gyro I finally choose. The Beast X is looking like a clear winner because of its reliability and can be intergrated into the CPII without much trouble. But I will continue reading up on additional FBL units to see how they stack up as well.

[Sambuka]

There are advantages to going with the most popular unit most used on the forums, more guides, more support if you have trouble. I think there was a CP2 and beastx setup guide somewhere maybe under sticky. Beastx is a awesome FBL unit that's pretty much known as the most easy to learn that just works great out of the box for most pilots very little tuning required usually.

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by sutty

Yeah, not to worry night. If you aren't sure off the top of your head, then I'm not sure reading the manual will clear it up. Certainly it says that it will assist by gently ascending to the HD, but I think this is only for the initial ascent. After HD ER it says after two seconds, full collective control is returned to the pilot. No mention is made of height and it just says 'full' collective control, so I don't expect it will do it after an HD ER, if the manual is accurate. Of course we know for sure it makes use of the +-8 degrees of collective, as needed during the ER, but perhaps the gentle ascent is only once per HD initialisation.

Still, I only skim read it, so further reading might offer clarification.

Cheers

Sutty

Hi Sutty,

With the current version 2.41 with HD module installed, the one to two degrees of additional positive collective pitch is always given after an ER is completed below the HD and continues until the helicopter is at or above the set HD. The pilot can always override this positive addition of collective which would be necessary, for example, in a planned or even an unplanned auto.

Jack

[sutty]

Excellent, thanks Jack. I think that is a very good feature.

As you can see from what I described the manual may not be entirely clear on this, unless I have an old version, or was careless in my reading. I only downloaded it a few days ago so it is quite recent, though I accept that it will be subject to change right now.

It can't be applying a small amount of +ve collective, and have returned 'full' collective control to the pilot, which after two seconds, is what it says. Even if it can be easily overridden, there is some descrepency here with this statement. Plus I couldn't actually find any text which said that this even happened after an HD style ER, though I could find reference to it helping you to slowly ascend to the HD when it was initialised.

Just a thought, and if I'm right that it is missing, you may wish to consider recommending a small re-write to Tim.

Cheers

Sutty

[SKYQUEST]

Wait, there's a 2.41 firmware now? I thought the newest was 2.40?
Maybe I'm mistaken? I just updated the firmware last week......

[Tim Marks]

Originally Posted by SKYQUEST

Wait, there's a 2.41 firmware now? I thought the newest was 2.40?
Maybe I'm mistaken? I just updated the firmware last week......

Hi:

v2.40 is the latest production code. v2.41 is in beta testing. Jack is a beta tester.

You're good!

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by sutty

Excellent, thanks Jack. I think that is a very good feature.

As you can see from what I described the manual may not be entirely clear on this, unless I have an old version, or was careless in my reading. I only downloaded it a few days ago so it is quite recent, though I accept that it will be subject to change right now.

It can't be applying a small amount of +ve collective, and have returned 'full' collective control to the pilot, which after two seconds, is what it says. Even if it can be easily overridden, there is some descrepency here with this statement. Plus I couldn't actually find any text which said that this even happened after an HD style ER, though I could find reference to it helping you to slowly ascend to the HD when it was initialised.

Just a thought, and if I'm right that it is missing, you may wish to consider recommending a small re-write to Tim.

Cheers

Sutty

Hi Sutty,

Yes, one of those things that is hard to put into words that cover every aspect. Will try again.

When we say full or 100% control is given back to the pilot we actually mean the pilot now has the ability to apply input to the helicopters cyclic and collective. Below the HD CPII is in a super stabilized mode and is giving stabilizing input to the helicopter until it reaches the HD at which point the stabilization and additional collective pitch will be turned off. The ratio of pilot to CPII control is determined in preferences by the stick priority the pilot has chosen. That setting can be between 0% to 150%. After the ER completes and if you are still below the HD then an addition 1 or 2 degrees of collective is added by CPII when the collective stick is near the hover position. However, the pilot still can manually override the collective input the closer the collective stick is moved toward the extreme in either direction. For example, if your helicopter is setup for plus or minus 12 degrees collective pitch and the pilot moves the collective stick to the full down position then negative 12 degrees of collective will be seen at the helicopter. The reverse of that is also true, if the pilot moves the collective stick to the full up collective stick position then positive 12 degrees of collective will be seen at the helicopter. By the pilot having the ability to override the additional positive collective to return to the HD allows the pilot to preform an auto, either on purpose or as a result of a motor failure, by applying the need negative collective pitch to maintain main rotor RPM for a successful landing.

At one point in the development of the CPII HD the small positive collective pitch was present in the programming. At some point in the development that feature was removed but was recently reinstated at the request of the beta testers. Hence the possible lack of precise documentation in the manual.

[sutty]

Hey Jack, Thanks for that. To be fair, I did kind of get that now, but I appreciate the more detailed explanation. I wasn't suggesting that it was necessarily easy to get the wording right, I'm sure it isn't, and as I mentioned, I understand why the manual might be subject to change. All I was suggesting was that you guys might want to consider changing the wording a little, so that it included some explanation of this feature following an HD rescue.

By the way, even though I have not received mine yet, so have not had the chance to test fly it, I think this was a good decision on the part of the Beta testers. HD ER occurs, get your collective nicely positioned, and let yourself ascend gently back up to your chosen HD. What could be better. Helps to teach you where it is, as in my head, when I try to imagine what it would be like, this is one of the things I had been thinking might be quite hard to get to grips with, i.e. exactly where your HD is, and I'm sure this will help.

Cheers

Sutty

[N3M0]

Maybe Ill just get lucky and they will make the CPII with FBL tech already inside. Tim, Howard, any word on that in the future? If so, is that something the CPII Aviionics Computer can do with a Firmware upgrade?

[jperkosk]

Not possible, I'm afraid. FBL controllers function on the base of input from 3 gyros positioned one in each axis (hence the term 3-axis gyro), of which the Avionics Computer contains none.
Would be surprised if Tim decided to get into this increasingly competitive field while he can keep on developing the technology that nobody else can match (at least so far)

[justwannahavefun]

Originally Posted by Sambuka

Helicommand hc3sx is a stand alone FBL unit that makes it so you don't need the co pilot and external modules and wires. It's the best bailout on the market and a great FBL unit better than beastx but it more costly.

The best bailout on the market isn't worth squat if you don't hit the switch in time. I had a CPII on my Blade 450. I used it a few times as a bailout feature. ( Unit not on until I got into trouble, then hit the swich )

This is where Skookum and CPII have it over the rest. Both have a hard deck now. I believe the Skookum minimum is 8M, while CoPilot II is 30 feet. I can't wait to get one of these units. I'm just trying to figure out which one. I have a 3gxMRS unit which is an integrated FBL controller/RX. CPII won't work with it. Not any way I can find yet.

Skookum and GPS unit only need a sat RX. It's damn expensive for now though. I've found it for about $850.00. CPII with bailout I think for the whole package is about $250. The CPII has some kind of ugly tubes and a funnel that has to hang off the bottom of the heli though. ( Barometric altimeter ).

Skookum I think only uses GPS. I don't know if the GPS altimeter is as accurate as the barometric type but at least you don't have all that crap hanging off your heli.

Bottom line. For saving your but from crashing, an automated setup is ALWAYS going to be your best bet. There's no way you can react quick enough for every situation, or EVER as well as the computer can. And sometimes, the same brain fart that got you into trouble will also keep you from hitting the switch in time.

I saved my but with a CPII switched bailout a few times, but once my brain froze and I just watched the heli explode on the ground.

Go for automated. And MY GOD, if you're not getting automated, Helicommand is WAY TOO MUCH MONEY for a simple switched bailout feature. You can have a CPII without hard deck module that will allow you to bail out the same way as helicommand and it only costs $150.00. And, it works VERY fast and accurately.

I was trying inverted and didn't have near enough negative pitch set up. When the heli was less than ten feet off the ground, or less maybe, I hit the switch on the CPII. I was amazed!!!!! That damned heli flipped over and went into a hover about three feet off the ground. If that's not fast enough for you I don't know what is.