HP03T modified/rewinded possible for a BL main?

[Nytflyer]

Hi guys!

Wondering if any of you gurus could give a bit of advice. I have an HP03T that got mangled in a crash. It was the tail of my BL mcpx. I ordered all of the parts from Dylan to do the nano BL conversion except for the main motor. ESC that I flashed myself, carbon braces, and servo spacers. Dylan even threw in one of the main motor adapter rings in the servo spacer bag. I didn't ask or pay for that piece but somehow he knew I would need it. Thanks Dylan I like to tinker so I wanted to try and make this busted motor I have work.

So, I took the motor apart and flipped the shaft. I rewound it (first time I have ever tried rewinding a motor) with the magnet wire from inside a stock brushed mcpx motor. After about 3 trys I finally got a motor that starts everytime with no issues and it does get the heli off the ground but that is about it lol. I have had some fun this weekend practicing nose down funnels in my basement but the motor bogs real bad with any hard input.

Basically my question is : Is it possible to rewind this motor with the power to fly well? The first rewind was with 7 turns on each pole. I started with that because I felt that was the most copper I could fit but after some trys I think I could get 9 turns on there. Sorry I have no idea what gauge the wire is or how to figure out KV or anything like that. I have already planned to order one of the mild brushless motors when Dylan gets them back in stock (if I awake when he posts them lol) but I am just curious if I can make what I have work.

Just wondering if I am chasing my tail with this. I am not sure if the stator in the HP03SE is different and that is what makes it more powerful or if I just need a better rewind. Just want to know if it is worth pursuing or just a lost cause.

Appreciate any opinions out there. Happy flying.

[Nytflyer]

Here are a couple of pics sorry they are bad all I have is my old phone.

[felice]

Hi Nytflyer,

i think it could work, but it might be more complicated than you think. The HP03T has far to low KV (something around 8000), but for the Nano we need nearly twice this KV.

To get more KV out of an existing motor, the only way i know is to rewind it with LESS winds and greater wire gauge.

But i am not that deep in Brushless-Motors to tell you how exactly to rewind the HP03T to get the appropriate KV...

Hope this helps somehow.

Felice

[timox72]

Originally Posted by Nytflyer

Hi guys!

Wondering if any of you gurus could give a bit of advice. I have an HP03T that got mangled in a crash. It was the tail of my BL mcpx. I ordered all of the parts from Dylan to do the nano BL conversion except for the main motor. ESC that I flashed myself, carbon braces, and servo spacers. Dylan even threw in one of the main motor adapter rings in the servo spacer bag. I didn't ask or pay for that piece but somehow he knew I would need it. Thanks Dylan I like to tinker so I wanted to try and make this busted motor I have work.

So, I took the motor apart and flipped the shaft. I rewound it (first time I have ever tried rewinding a motor) with the magnet wire from inside a stock brushed mcpx motor. After about 3 trys I finally got a motor that starts everytime with no issues and it does get the heli off the ground but that is about it lol. I have had some fun this weekend practicing nose down funnels in my basement but the motor bogs real bad with any hard input.

Basically my question is : Is it possible to rewind this motor with the power to fly well? The first rewind was with 7 turns on each pole. I started with that because I felt that was the most copper I could fit but after some trys I think I could get 9 turns on there. Sorry I have no idea what gauge the wire is or how to figure out KV or anything like that. I have already planned to order one of the mild brushless motors when Dylan gets them back in stock (if I awake when he posts them lol) but I am just curious if I can make what I have work.

Just wondering if I am chasing my tail with this. I am not sure if the stator in the HP03SE is different and that is what makes it more powerful or if I just need a better rewind. Just want to know if it is worth pursuing or just a lost cause.

Appreciate any opinions out there. Happy flying.

Nytflyer,

PM dbenntya and ask if it´s possible. He does some serious powerful rewinds and a he´s a great guy to deal with

[Dylwad]

HP03T is 12 magnet wound wye, HP03S is 6 magnet wound delta. All other parts are pretty much the same.

Escs generally don't like high Kv 12 magnet wye motors as the switching speeds are very high and keeping sync becomes an issue so you get stuttering or screeching, or worse the esc can smoke.

wye is easy to wind, delta takes some practice.

[Nytflyer]

Thank all of you guys for your replies I appreciate all the input. Thanks Dylan for letting me know it needs to be a delta wind At least I know it is possible. I will be getting one of your motors as soon as they are available hopefully if I am quick enough.

I think I will keep practicing though it took me like 3 tries to get a very successfull wye wind. Obviously I started with that because it is easier than delta. Still gonna give it a try a few times just for giggles. I have been ripping apart some brushed motors from some rc cars I messed with years ago and stripping the magnet wire it seems the perfect size.

I really was concerned about the stator being different between the HP03T and the HP03SE. Now that I know it is the same and possible I will keep at it. Please hurry and get those motors back in stock though because my nano is down until I get one. I like the challenge though it has been fun. Happy flying guys!

[Dylwad]

Another thing, used magnet wire can be all sorts of trouble, always check for shorts between the wires and stator while winding, used wire can have nicks in the insulation and a shorted phase to the stator is a bad thing.

[Nytflyer]

Originally Posted by Dylwad

Another thing, used magnet wire can be all sorts of trouble, always check for shorts between the wires and stator while winding, used wire can have nicks in the insulation and a shorted phase to the stator is a bad thing.

Also good info thanks very much. I have had my doubts with the used wire from the get go just because of all the kinks in it to begin with and I am not super gentle with it at all. Gotta tug it a little to get a tight wind. Maybe I will get better with practice. I guess I should try and find a source for some decent magnet wire once I am confident I can pull it off.. I have heard that radio shack sells it but I don't think any of it is small enough to wind a motor?

Actually though I am kind of glad I started this task with the used wire for my first tries. It is tough for me to get a nice tight/even wind and I am very anal lol. So, I wind up wrapping then unwrapping untill I feel it is perfect. Prolly takes me 5-6 trys to wrap a pole around 15-30 minutes a phase.

I just did a new wye rewind and was able to get 9 turns as opposed to the 7 I got on the first few tries. Will have to test tomorrow though because it is time to hang with the wife and kids for the night. Hoping the extra turns will help even if it is just a little will make me feel good to see some progression. The 7 turn motor I did flew the heli but bogged real bad at the slightest input. Maybe the extra turns will get me a little more torque to fly until you get the next shipment of motors in. Thanks!

[Dylwad]

Gobrushless and Ebay are my sources for wire, careful though, some of the coatings are more than a pain to remove!

[oxide1]

Originally Posted by Nytflyer

Hi guys!

Wondering if any of you gurus could give a bit of advice. I have an HP03T that got mangled in a crash. It was the tail of my BL mcpx. I ordered all of the parts from Dylan to do the nano BL conversion except for the main motor. ESC that I flashed myself, carbon braces, and servo spacers. Dylan even threw in one of the main motor adapter rings in the servo spacer bag. I didn't ask or pay for that piece but somehow he knew I would need it. Thanks Dylan I like to tinker so I wanted to try and make this busted motor I have work.

So, I took the motor apart and flipped the shaft. I rewound it (first time I have ever tried rewinding a motor) with the magnet wire from inside a stock brushed mcpx motor. After about 3 trys I finally got a motor that starts everytime with no issues and it does get the heli off the ground but that is about it lol. I have had some fun this weekend practicing nose down funnels in my basement but the motor bogs real bad with any hard input.

Basically my question is : Is it possible to rewind this motor with the power to fly well? The first rewind was with 7 turns on each pole. I started with that because I felt that was the most copper I could fit but after some trys I think I could get 9 turns on there. Sorry I have no idea what gauge the wire is or how to figure out KV or anything like that. I have already planned to order one of the mild brushless motors when Dylan gets them back in stock (if I awake when he posts them lol) but I am just curious if I can make what I have work.

Just wondering if I am chasing my tail with this. I am not sure if the stator in the HP03SE is different and that is what makes it more powerful or if I just need a better rewind. Just want to know if it is worth pursuing or just a lost cause.

Appreciate any opinions out there. Happy flying.

have you read this thread Nytflyer? https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...ar+replacement... mescalinedream did some interesting work with rewinding motors, trying different wires etc... different motor to the one you're trying... but pretty interesting stuff!

[Ampdraw]

I'd guess the magnets are the same that Oversky uses in their HP03s and t but that is another potential variable.

I actually started this too and marked every second magnet, stripped out the necessary and glued in the correct pattern for a 6 mag bell. Also started the rewind but ended up using a motor that turned up.

These teeny motors are a serious project but fun to do if you have the time and are tinker inclined.

If you had a correct patterned wound HP03s..say the 16000kv version it would be alot easier to wind that to a different Kv than rolling blind as you can count turns and make calc to get close to target kv.

Some links:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post12707779
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=717989
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...23&postcount=7
http://home.solcon.nl/gjkool/brushlessE5.html
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
http://www.bavaria-direct.co.za/models/motor_info.htm

http://translate.google.com/translat...inages-bl.html

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666877

Lots of cool stuff here
http://translate.google.com/translat...wercroco.de%2F

Amp

[ahahn]

Originally Posted by Dylwad

HP03T is 12 magnet wound wye, HP03S is 6 magnet wound delta. All other parts are pretty much the same.

Escs generally don't like high Kv 12 magnet wye motors as the switching speeds are very high and keeping sync becomes an issue so you get stuttering or screeching, or worse the esc can smoke.

wye is easy to wind, delta takes some practice.

Not sure I get this point. Winding is winding, but delta or wye is the termination of the windings. One isn't easier than the other.

So maybe you are referring to the number of winds you make for delta, and that being easier, don't know.

Back when I did motor winding, I actually changed a motor from delta to wye by simply unsoldering the termination at the motor plug and reconnecting the 6 wire ends (from the 3 winding phases) into the wye termination. Motor worked fine, just with a lower Kv for the wye than it had as a delta. This was a Scorpion 3014 kit motor.

[Dylwad]

I meant the termination, it's easier to twist the 3 starts or ends of the phases together for a newbie, I still need to refer to a picture to know which wires get connected for delta.

[Nytflyer]

Originally Posted by Dylwad

I meant the termination, it's easier to twist the 3 starts or ends of the phases together for a newbie, I still need to refer to a picture to know which wires get connected for delta.

That is what I have noticed. The delta termination doesn't seem that difficult but I wouldn't be able to do it without some reference. Wye is so easy I could do it while sleeping

So I tried my motor tonight that I wound with 9 turns instead of seven. It had slightly more power and didn't bog "as much" but was still unacceptable. This weekend I will try somewhere around 7-9 turns with the delta terminations and see what happens this is actually kind of fun to me and a learning experience. Still can't wait though Dylan until you get motors back in stock lol. I only have 1 nano so I am grounded untill I get that motor!

@Ampdraw thank you for all of those links sir I tried searching for stuff but never really came up with anything but the absolute basics. Those links will keep me busy for awhile. Really appreciate all the comments/help all of you guys have provided. Thank you!

[f.a.r.m.e.r]

Originally Posted by Nytflyer

That is what I have noticed. The delta termination doesn't seem that difficult but I wouldn't be able to do it without some reference. Wye is so easy I could do it while sleeping

So I tried my motor tonight that I wound with 9 turns instead of seven. It had slightly more power and didn't bog "as much" but was still unacceptable. This weekend I will try somewhere around 7-9 turns with the delta terminations and see what happens this is actually kind of fun to me and a learning experience. Still can't wait though Dylan until you get motors back in stock lol. I only have 1 nano so I am grounded untill I get that motor!

@Ampdraw thank you for all of those links sir I tried searching for stuff but never really came up with anything but the absolute basics. Those links will keep me busy for awhile. Really appreciate all the comments/help all of you guys have provided. Thank you!

You are going backwards Leo... you need lower winds and thicker wire to achieve a higher kv.. try going to the wattflyer forums for help that's how I did my hp05s they are motor gurus lol

[Nytflyer]

Originally Posted by f.a.r.m.e.r

You are going backwards Leo... you need lower winds and thicker wire to achieve a higher kv.. try going to the wattflyer forums for help that's how I did my hp05s they are motor gurus lol

Haha thanks Dave I will check it out. This project started mostly because I didn't have a motor for my nano. I didn't think it would be as difficult as it has been but its all good I am learning some cool stuff. Still can't wait to get a motor from Dylan though so I can fly my nano again. I just can't bring myself to buy another stock motor as it would be #4 now

I got out of work a little early today and went back to my 7 turn wind (still using crappy used magnet wire) but I did the delta termination. First tests with the motor out of the heli seem good. Motor sounds much more alive now. Tomorrow I will put it in the heli for the real test.

[f.a.r.m.e.r]

Originally Posted by Nytflyer

Haha thanks Dave I will check it out. This project started mostly because I didn't have a motor for my nano. I didn't think it would be as difficult as it has been but its all good I am learning some cool stuff. Still can't wait to get a motor from Dylan though so I can fly my nano again. I just can't bring myself to buy another stock motor as it would be #4 now

I got out of work a little early today and went back to my 7 turn wind (still using crappy used magnet wire) but I did the delta termination. First tests with the motor out of the heli seem good. Motor sounds much more alive now. Tomorrow I will put it in the heli for the real test.

Let us know how it works out.. take video even if it don't work well.. make sure to wear safety glasses and have a fire extinguisher next to you lol

[Nytflyer]

Originally Posted by f.a.r.m.e.r

Let us know how it works out.. take video even if it don't work well.. make sure to wear safety glasses and have a fire extinguisher next to you lol

Well here is a video of my 7 turn delta termination. This is by far my best result yet! Gonna rewind it again with less turns and see what happens. This was enough power to fly but it drained the batts super fast. At least I am making a little progress here.

Sorry for the crappy vid.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxc_kE0DEDA&feature=g-upl[/ame]

[Nytflyer]

Can any of you guys tell me what gauge wire is used in the HP03SE?

[f.a.r.m.e.r]

Originally Posted by Nytflyer

Well here is a video of my 7 turn delta termination. This is by far my best result yet! Gonna rewind it again with less turns and see what happens. This was enough power to fly but it drained the batts super fast. At least I am making a little progress here.

Sorry for the crappy vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxc_k...&feature=g-upl

What battery are you using you might have to go with a mcpx size pack.. The motor sounds like it's starving for Juice.. If you haven't tried it already