Hard Deck Function

[rdlohr]

Not being the outstanding pilot Dom and some of you others are, I use my mCPX as a trainer quite a bit. As a result, I crash it quite a bit. I could see putting this on one of my helis as a much more capable trainer. A bird that I could try new things on rather than relying so much on the simulator and the mCPX would be cool. I'm skepticle as well but I'm hoping for the best. The technologies involved have evolved dramatically over the last few years so who knows. Its not so much the hardware now but the programming. We will see how mature the software is.

Rick

[Carapau]

Wow, lots of harshing for what is an excellent idea. Yes it isn't for all, and certainly not me but let's not bash it until we have seen it in use.

Us heli folk are an odd lot. We REALLY don't like change it seems yet we love to tinker and try this setup verses that setup- now there's an irony. So here is a new bit of tech that could really help people join the hobby and STAY in the hobby as it COULD reduce crash costs yet we are already bashing it before it has even left the starting gate.

Personally I will be intrigued to see how this goes. If it works great then the hobby progresses, if not then, well nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Epoweredrc]

deleted

[Drivinfast247]

I'm going to buy a TDR as my next heli after my MCPx and install this. Hope it works. What's the worst that could happen?

[nightflyr]

Let me try to explain something here,
This unit will allow a pilot to fly under his own complete control, and only engage once the height threshold has been breached.

For all those who feel this type of hardware and technology isn't for them that's fine God bless and happy flying.

For those who would like to reduce the crash risk and costs involved when learning new moves, I see this as a great tool.

If this unit keeps your machine in the air instead of in the ground and gives a more relaxed arena to learn with in...
I see nothing wrong in doing so.

There will always be those who will say ... " if your not crashing ..your not learning"
Well that no longer needs to be the case.

You may argue the technology and hardware till the cows come home, but it is here like it or not.
If it doesn't suit your need or purpose, so be it.... doesn't mean others can not make good use of it.
Denouncing and/or bashing only shows peoples narrow mindedness, and little care or concern for people getting into the hobby...

If this helps a person learn.. and can save the grief and costs of crashing I'm all for it!!

To those folks @ FMA who put the countless hours of R&D, software and code writing, and testing.
I salute you and yours for trying to make this hobby easier for those getting into it.

[cupracing]

I don't see why there are so many haters. If you think about it, as rc technology has evolved rc heli flying had become easier. In the early days pilots flew with out flybars and gyros, then the flybar was added designed for added stability, then the tail gyro designed to make the tail locked and easier to control, then flybarless gyros came out to make the heli very stable and predictable and now this. There is a demand out there for it be easier so that is why the technology was made. If you want a complete challenge take all the gyros off and see how you get on. I'm sure you will be an unhappy person. I for one have enjoyed myself more since the move to flybarless as its made the heli more predictable and sim like, and I now crash far less because of it. I know it's cheating but I'm cool with that. I won't be using this unit but can see a big advantage to beginners or those that want to try new things that don't get on with sims.

[tbullard]

I hope it is as simple as a plug in module. Not sure I would want to buy a completely new system just for this feature but I would get it for a new heli.

I what the "hard deck" altitude will be or if it will be adjustable.

[ronm3313]

The thread is titled 'This hobby is about to see a major change' It's possible. While we already have systems designed to prevent crashes to the best of my limited knowledge none of them use a hard deck. I believe the current systems require the pilot to throw a switch.

When I was first learning I thought the current systems were to expensive. This hobby already has a pretty high entry cost. I think to really change the hobby the new system will have to work flawlessly and be reasonably priced.

Time will tell.

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by DominicD

You are still missing my point, maybe i wasn't clear in explaining it. People generally buy a FBL unit to improve performance. If you crash due to the FBL unit you can consider that part of the price you pay for better performance. The stab on the other hand only has the 1 purpose... to prevent crashes. How silly is it to crash in the pursuit of preventing crashes.



Let us not confuse a new technology with a new implementation, this type of product has been around for years.

Not to be augmentative here.. but I been tooling round these forums a few years and have never come across a hard deck unit capable of recovery during 3D flight.

Altitude hold units... yes quite a few.... but none that would function while doing 3D and if they are around they must be a well kept secret

[latte]

Great! I would like one to our club. We have several new heli-members, and having a school-heli with this on, would be awsome!

I think in fact its a great idea, I thought of something like it a little while ago. With the function On, you wouldnt be able to smash it into the ground, even if you tried to! But besides that, it would be passive, and feeling like any other fbl-unit.

I cant see how it should not be able to feel like any other fbl-controller and work like a charm for 3d, but stop you from hitting the floor.


If its something I'v learned not to say, is Never say Never, so I wont say I ever will put a unit on my heli in the future that will prevent a crash.

[shreddedpaper]

I'm as new as they come here, and as far as the term, "if you're not crashing, you're not learning" I say that is total BS. "If you're not flying, you're not learning" has more actual appeal to me. That's like giving your teenager the keys to the family truckster and saying, gotta crash to learn

I would venture to say that some people will install this system and never take it off, happy to simply fly and take it all home in one piece.
Others will install it and reach a point where they want to have total control without the nanny function, remove the system and progress from there.
Still others will totally shun the idea and look down upon those who do use it.

This product is made for people like me.

I want to learn, I like to build, but I have trouble progressing when I think I may stick it in the ground. I run a business and simply don't have the free time I used to have, so my actual flying is limited to the rare occasions when i can sneak away for an hour or two. During those times, the last thing I want is crash damage, as I am usually trying to get back to the point I left off at from the last flight time. back to home means back to work and little time for rebuilds.

I do sim religiously for about 30 minutes each night, sims are easy, real life not so much.
Pilots will still have to learn proper setup, no magic box will do that. You still have to buy and install good components and electronics to make the anti crash technology work reliably. Cheap crap won't cut it.

I see heli kits actually going down in price, because EVERYBODY will want to take a try at it. Increased Mass Production means lower end user costs. You're seeing that right now with the advancement of milder forms of flight control.
Remember when a Trex 450 was about $1000.00, with no battery or TX?

Take a step into the "wayback machine".....
How about all those guys using that new "heading hold" gyro, they got it easy, not having to control the tail now. That ain't flying. The hobby is going down hill from here.

Wait another 6 months and see what develops. We'll be able to fly it just using thought control.
That's when we'll see who really has nothing on their mind.

All in good fun.

[latte]

The reason we havent seen any products like this yet, is because the rest of the industry is working hard to keep it away from us! If we dont crash, they wont make money on parts!

[Ozz58]

I got in to this hobby because of how hard it was to learn. (Back in the early 90's)
To me it felt like I had really done something great just flying around, still remember the big smile that wouldn't go away for days after my first figure 8.

I'm not saying this tech isn't a good thing, but just wasn't something I was looking for back 20 years ago. I learned with a machanical gyro, slow servos and a -6 +10 pitch along with wood blades and only nitro, and a radio I had to mix rudder with throttle. I'm sure some of you guys remember those days.

Back then, flying a heli ment something about your commitment to the hobby. Now people can already do in one month what it took me a year.

The elite is no longer, good or bad? Can't say. The good is the kit's and parts are getting cheaper. Bad, newbies just can't understand the patience it took us back in the "old days".

Craig

[Cailid]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

Not to be augmentative here.. but I been tooling round these forums a few years and have never come across a hard deck unit capable of recovery during 3D flight.

Altitude hold units... yes quite a few.... but none that would function while doing 3D and if they are around they must be a well kept secret

The skookum 720 would do that. It doesn't have a 'hard deck' sensor and requires you to throw a switch but it would level your heli from any attitude once you threw the switch..

[Tim Marks]

Originally Posted by Cailid

The skookum 720 would do that. It doesn't have a 'hard deck' sensor and requires you to throw a switch but it would level your heli from any attitude once you threw the switch..

Hi:

Not to take anything away from Skookum. I figure they're decent units. But Co Pilot has had bail out switch capability since early 2000's, beginning with the original CPD4. What we're talking about here is an imaginary plane, programmable to an altitude you desire, say 50 feet. If you pass through this altitude, the bail-out switch is thrown automatically for you. Many would say that bail out switches are great, but many would say they have not time to react and find the switch in time. From 100 feet up, you're in the ground in around 1 second. At 50 feet, it's about 1/2 a second. I'm happy that our recent "teaser" campaign spurred this much interest in the module. Before long, we'll get some video put together.

Whether something like CPII with or without the new HD module is something "for you", it is amazing to watch how it recovers. CPII already flies faster than humanly possible. It's a computer after all! But to see a model heli fall into the HD at any attitude, and then perform a hands-off recovery to level flight. Well, you just have to see it to believe it. It's extremely "robotic" looking. And I'm talking from experience here having seen literally 100's of recoveries over the course of testing.

Thanks for your interest and keep an eye out for additional information.

Thanks also to Night for starting this thread and answering so many questions!

Tim Marks
President
FMA, Inc.
Revolectrix Partner

[dl5973]

sounds like an interesting sytem

if it works like they claim it does there is a market for it.

im all for it if the price is right but i doubt i will need it.

I guess it will be a hindrence if your a 3d pilot that loves flying on the deck

[Drivinfast247]

I wanna see video ASAP!

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by Tim Marks

From 100 feet up, you're in the ground in around 1 second. At 50 feet, it's about 1/2 a second.

Only if your doing 110kph, even if your heli was falling as a dead weight it takes ~2.5s to fall 100ft and that would be no power and blades stopped.

Your numbers seem somewhat exaggerated to me, unless more people like to make full power vertical dives than i thought.

[Tim Marks]

Originally Posted by desertstalker

Only if your doing 110kph, even if your heli was falling as a dead weight it takes ~2.5s to fall 100ft and that would be no power and blades stopped.

Your numbers seem somewhat exaggerated to me, unless more people like to make full power vertical dives than i thought.

"Full power vertical dives" into the deck is often how we test HD. I'm not trying to start an argument here, and I didn't actually use a stop watch to time decent, but we can play back video frame-by-frame and the numbers I mentioned, if not perfect, are very close and to the best of my memory.

[Cailid]

Originally Posted by Tim Marks

Hi:

Not to take anything away from Skookum. I figure they're decent units. But Co Pilot has had bail out switch capability since early 2000's, beginning with the original CPD4. What we're talking about here is an imaginary plane, programmable to an altitude you desire, say 50 feet. If you pass through this altitude, the bail-out switch is thrown automatically for you. Many would say that bail out switches are great, but many would say they have not time to react and find the switch in time. From 100 feet up, you're in the ground in around 1 second. At 50 feet, it's about 1/2 a second. I'm happy that our recent "teaser" campaign spurred this much interest in the module. Before long, we'll get some video put together.

Whether something like CPII with or without the new HD module is something "for you", it is amazing to watch how it recovers. CPII already flies faster than humanly possible. It's a computer after all! But to see a model heli fall into the HD at any attitude, and then perform a hands-off recovery to level flight. Well, you just have to see it to believe it. It's extremely "robotic" looking. And I'm talking from experience here having seen literally 100's of recoveries over the course of testing.

Thanks for your interest and keep an eye out for additional information.

Thanks also to Night for starting this thread and answering so many questions!

Tim Marks
President
FMA, Inc.
Revolectrix Partner

What I was replying too was nightflyers comment that he hadn't seen any bailout features that would work during 3D flying. I was merely commenting that the Skookums bailout will work during 3D.