Smooth turns during forward flight

[Flooznie]

Hey guys,
I've been practicing forward flight on RF6 and I have some questions about the best way to turn the bird. Do I bank the helicopter into the turn first with the aileron first then follow it with the rudder, move the rudder first and follow it with aileron, do I move both sticks at the same time. I've noticed that the flybars made the model pitch up during forward flight. I had somebody at the flying field tell me that the helicopter flies just like an airplane during forward flight. That is absolutely not true, since I actually know how to fly an r/c airplane. It's like someone telling me when I got to my first trident submarine that TCD works just like Tave when I stood Reactor Operator. After I went to a critique, I learned that wasn't true either.
Anyway, thanks in advance for your help.
Paul

[robbancs]

First bank, then rudder and elevator together. Opposite when you are exiting.

I'm not sure but I think even flybarred helis only pitch up if the head speed is too low but I'm not sure. I've been flying for two years but I can't tell if mine does it or not. If it does it, it's not annoying. However I do remember that my FP Honeybee did it and it was annoying but that was a different animal.
Anyways one big difference in comparison with planks is that you fly a helicopter all the time. Even with FBL, even with very slow scale flying, I don't think you want to let it fly by itself for more than a couple of seconds. Take it or leave it

[Flooznie]

I'll practice this tonight on the sim. So if I'm making a left turn, just to make sure we are on the same page, lean bird left, then left rudder and back cyclic to tilt the nose up right?

Paul

[Starcruiser]

yep

[gitbse]

It's actually not the flybar that makes the heli pitch upwards in FFF. It has to do with the wind direction that is entering the disc. The oncoming air can enter from two sides, above and below.

If the heli is leaning forward in FFF, the air is going through the blades from above the disc. Once the disc crosses horizontal AOA (angle of attack) the air is coming from below the disc, which dramatically changes the blades' angle of attack, causing massive pitch changes.

As well as... in FFF the advancing side of the disc (left side) is going much faster in terms of airspeed than the retreating side(right side.) This creates a major imbalance in lift, and because of gyroscopic precession, creates major lift 90 degrees from where the force is. This massive lift is transfered to the front of the disc, which lifts the nose up.

[robbancs]

Good info, thanks. Then I wasn't very far from the truth with the head speed suggestion because the higher the head speed the lower the relative speed difference is.

[gitbse]

Yep.
And a little edit on my last post.
It is partially the flybar causing the pitchy-ness in FFF. For the same reason as the blades, advancing vs. retreating sides. Again, due to gyroscopic forces. The advancing side paddles gain more lift along the left side, which cause them extra lift force 90 degrees along the disc, which causes the paddle disc to tilt backwards. This backwards tilt of the paddles causes the advancing main blade to have more positive pitch along the left side, which in turn causes lift under the nose side of the disc.
Not as extreme as the main blade effects, but causes the same result.

Physics are fun

[Steve Graham]

The whole helis fly like planks in FFF is a crutch to help people transitioning from planks. There's little nuggets of truth in there especially regarding the fact that you need to add back pressure when the heli is banked to pull it through the turn.

I just do whatever it takes to keep the tail tracking in line with the flight path. Of course at some point, and this is one of the beautiful things about helis, you will decide you don't want the tail behind the nose and that in fact it can be anywhere you want it. So the only time this discussion is even relevant is assuming we want the heli flown in a scale like fashion using coordinated turns.

As to the sequence of what comes first well think about it. The bank initiates the turn. As far as I know helis don't display adverse yaw like some planes so the mere act of aileron input doesn't necessitate rudder. Rudder won't be necessary until you actually start to leave the line you were on. So for me roll, pitch, rudder as necessary. A higher roll rate and a tighter turn requires more rudder.

[Flooznie]

Man thanks for all the information guys! Today I took my Trex to the flying field, and the poor guy that was helping me trim it out crashed it because the batteries were too discharged by the time we figured it all out. I should have swapped out the batteries, but I'm ordering some new parts from Amainhobbies. I did manage to fly my MCPX around the field without destroying it, so my confidence level was boosted slightly.

[aramb]

What about collective? Is additional collective needed in banked turns?

[robbancs]

Yes

[w4llet]

Originally Posted by robbancs

First bank, then rudder and elevator together. Opposite when you are exiting.

I'm not sure but I think even flybarred helis only pitch up if the head speed is too low but I'm not sure. I've been flying for two years but I can't tell if mine does it or not. If it does it, it's not annoying. However I do remember that my FP Honeybee did it and it was annoying but that was a different animal.
Anyways one big difference in comparison with planks is that you fly a helicopter all the time. Even with FBL, even with very slow scale flying, I don't think you want to let it fly by itself for more than a couple of seconds. Take it or leave it

I agree. I do same think. Bank, rudder and elevator.

My heli pitch up a lot when there is wind. But with time and practice you will learn to compensate that.

I also try to not input collective but if you are at wrong speed according to the bank angle it will stall and you have to fix it with collective. After a while your brain learn that and put inputs on auto you don't even think about, it just happens. Not i am the best pilot in the world (i am too far away from that) but I am just sharing my impressions.

cheerz!

[ekees]

Coming from the plank world I tried bank and yank... And promptly flew the bird into the ground.

Fortunately, a club member smacked
me upside the head and reminded me to use the left stick! Just like IMAC planks.... Rudder! Keep the tail where you want it