smooth flips?

[boltor]

I am still having trouble getting "smooth" flips. On the flight sim they are perfectly even, however in real life I seem to get an egg shape. I guess this is due to not timing negative pitch very well? Possibly the sim setup and the real heli are different in the pitch set up?

Any thoughts on how to smooth out a flip?

[superjoe83]

one word: PRACTICE!!

it will come, it probably took me a good 2-3 months of flying mainly weekends to get my flips to stay in one spot

[boltor]

Thanks. Agreed, practice is most important.

What I was also trying to get at was whether there were differences in pitch set up that might cause this (between sim and real helicopter).

[Rªzª]

you'll find your real helis will drop much faster than in the sim. there's much more of a floaty effect in the sims. it's not a huge difference and you'll get used to it, but in real life you just need to be on top of the pitch changes quicker to keep the heli from dropping.

[ziper_it]

The lesson I've learnt is not to do this by mechanically moving the sticks.

Try this with different heli on your sims in a row and you will understand what I mean. Do all flips come out smooth?

Once learnt the move on the sim, I think the trick for doing effective flips is to do them following the heli asset.

Just my two cents.


Francesco

[danyl]

This tip applies to all 3D. Beginners and intermediates just move the sticks and wait for the event to occur and resolve. Advanced pilots control the heli thru the entire maneuver making small corrections all the while.

Getting to the point where you can do that is the real trick.

When you did your first flip your brain told your fingers to do two things. First you pulled back on the elevator all the way and held it there. Then you AUTOMATICALLY cycled the collective down and then up. You watched the sim or heli and it did the flip. But if you had noticed, you moved the collective down and up at a CONSTANT rate. You did not match the collective movement to the position of the heli. It just sort of correlated somehow and worked itself out.

And it probably happened REAL fast.

Have you ever noticed that after a while it seems to happen slower in your brain. After MANY flips, it's like you can start seeing minor details about the heli that you didn't notice the first time!

Thats what an advanced flyer sees! He/she sees all the minor changes to the heli as in rotates because their brain has gotten so comfortable with the overall maneuver.

As you progress, try to focus SLOWLY on the stages of the heli's movements. It is only then that you will be able to make the subtle collective changes necessary to smooth out the flip.

Also, try pausing the heli inverted for just a millisecond during the flip. It will force you to really LOOK at the heli while it is flipping. You may notice for the first time that the tail has rotated a little as well. You may even find a second to rudder left or right to straighten things out while inverted, instead of waiting for your flip to finish before you regain its position.

To pause the heli half way, you will need to neutralize the elevator for a second. This forces you to watch the initial rotation more slowly so that you can time it.

Anything that FORCES the beginner to look carefully at the attitude of the heli during flight will benefit them later.

[clicky]

Well explained! Thanks...

If I didn't decide I want computers to be my profession a quarter of century ago and I can choose my profession, now, I've been in this hobby for almost 4 years now - I would choose psychology! It is so fascinating how brain works/adapts to such situations...

[Finless]

Not to pimp my training videos but here is one I did in 2007 showing the sticks for basic loops, rolls, and flips. I explain at the end why collective timing is important. Hope it helps.

http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...loopsrolls.wmv

Bob

[Rªzª]

please more pimping

[boltor]

well, thank you to everyone that took the time to add some ideas on how to do this. Made some real progress this morning - much smoother, and even did 4 in a row (last one a bit wobbly!).

[boltor]

As an interesting update to this, I bought Phoenix sim yesterday (now using the v3 BETA), and have found that the sim is doing exactlywhat my flips look like in real life. Very impressive sim (over the old version of RF I was using). The Protos seems to fly almost identically.

Very pleased with Phoenix (v3) over Real Flight... (loads quicker, >FPS, more realistic, etc). Wrong forum to talk about that though.

So, now practicing using the tips above is certainly helping. thanks!

[sarpilot]

I must be putting too much collective in initially. Most of my backflips on the sim end up looking like goofy loops with lots of altitude changes, I guess you should essentially be able to maintain altitude pretty much correct?
I tried yesterday just coming with back cyclic first as opposed to positive collective first and a few came out ok, but most still wander off altitude.....

[slamdance]

Flight sim's are basically set-up for "gaming", that is to make it easier than real life so you have fun!!! Fly the perfect helicopter!!! Lots of power and cyclic pitch control. It feels like a perfectly setup FBL Logo 600 or something with 3000 rpm headspeed. We'll you don't have to settle. De-tune or use a sloppy heli model. The harder it is the better you get. I fly realflight and I've "deleted" my dominion 90 crap model. You practice on that and then fly a trex450 in real life? Good luck. Don't be afraid to play with the customizing features in the simulator. You can tune the pitch, throttle curve just like a real tx. Also, add weight and slow down the head speed. I have my CDT Trex 500 shareware behaving "almost" identical to my trex 500. If you do this, then the simulator really SIMULATE's the real thing. Good luck!

[slamdance]

I've learned there are basically 3 ways to flip:
(let me first define a flip, I am only talking about a "half-flip", not a full flip)

1.) The "power" flip. Where you pop up. This is the "safest" way to do it, because you will gain altitude.
2.) The "easy up". Combine forward motion into the flip. Takes less power, but be careful. It can get away from you quickly.
3.) The "tilt flip". Tilt the heli, and then flip. This is the most compact and efficient way. However, you gotta be really good, because once you lean "sharp" you are fully committed. No turning back.

Practice this all on your sim before trying in real. Here's an old vid of my tilt flip.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bwVtI3O-hk[/ame]