Scorpion HK-3026-1400KV vs NEU KDE1708H-N42 motor any experiences??

[Matt Nasca]

I am in the market for a new motor and want something with the potential for crazy power. I have narrowed it down between these two and looking for any suggestions or anyone who have experience with both. There are some videos out but there are from guys who are great pilots and they could make any motor look good.

Will be flying 3D and big stuff, have new 40C batteries.

Cost aside, I know the KDE/NEU motor is more expensive. Which one is is most powerful in actual flight conditions? Is one a better combo of power and current draw (can read the specs but real world exp is slightly different).

Thoughts???????

Scorpion HK-3026-1400KV
Specifications
Stator Diameter 30.0 mm (1.181 in)
Stator Thickness 26.0 mm (1.024 in)
No. of Stator Arms 12
Magnet Poles 10
Motor Wind 6 Turn Delta
Motor Wire 24-Strand 0.25mm (AWG)
Motor Kv 1400Kv RPM / Volt
No-Load Current(Io/10V) 3.33 Amps
Motor Resistance (Rm) 0.010 Ohms
Max Continuous Current 80 Amps
Max Continuous Power 1680 Watts
Weight 199 Grams (7.02 oz)
Outside Diameter 37.50 mm (1.476 in)
Shaft Diameter 4.98 mm (0.196 in)
Body Length 48.4 mm (1.906 in)
Overall Shaft Length 74.2 mm (2.921 in)
Max Lipo Cell 6s


NEU KDE1708H-N42 KDE
Specs:
- kV: 1430 rpm/V
- Maximum Power: 2500+ W
- Maximum Efficiency: 93 %
- Io (@10V): 2.2 A
- Rm (Winding Resistance): 0.012 Ω
- Maximum Speed: 35,000 rpm
- Rotor Poles: 8 (24 Pole Stator)
- Bearings: F695ZZ
- Mount Pattern: M3 x 25mm
- Shaft Diameter: 5 mm
- Shaft Length: 21.5 mm
- Motor Diameter: 44 mm (49 mm Shroud)
- Motor Length: 46 mm
- Motor Weight: 205 g
- Cooling System: High-Volume Fan
- ESC PWM Rate: 11-16 kHz

[Vinger]

Neu/KDE motor sitting at post office, pity it's Sunday here, will be able to give you an answer early next week. Been flying the Scorpion 3026/1400KV for longer than a year on both my T500's. Can put some graphs up for you as I am running the ICE 75A.

Hope my investment in the Neu was worth it!

[Matt Nasca]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Neu/KDE motor sitting at post office, pity it's Sunday here, will be able to give you an answer early next week. Been flying the Scorpion 3026/1400KV for longer than a year on both my T500's. Can put some graphs up for you as I am running the ICE 75A.

Hope my investment in the Neu was worth it!

Vinger, I look forward to hearing what you think of the NEU motor!

[Bogan]

I'm also interested to hear how this motor performs. It's an expensive motor so I was hesatent to buy one without some feed back from others. From what I've read it should outperform the scorpion in both power and efficiency.

[KAR1]

I Know Patrick at KDE and fly with him on occasion. I watched his trex 500 fly with the Neu motor at Brooks last weekend and was so impressed I bought one on the spot. I'm sure you'll want the Phoenix Ice 100 controller with it too. I haven't installed mine yet as I plan to run my old motor till it's clapped out. If you look at the build quality of the Neu you will see there's no comparison between the Scorpion and the Neu. The Neu is an in-runner and way more suitable for a heli. It is fairly light weight for the power it produces, plus the windings are out in the can where they can cool better. There is nothing better than a Neu motor to my knowlege. I am just greatful that Patrick took the time to finally have one developed just for the Trex 500. He doesn't like slow helis so you know it will rip.

Oh..and it reaches peak efficiency @ 90 amps, so it was made for abuse.

Kevin

[Tisondm]

I'm really interested in this also. I almost bought the KDE Neu motor but went with the Scorp 1400.

I think the only way you could truly tell the diff is if you had 2 helis side by side with same pinion but the different motors.

One thing's for sure. If you want totally insane unboggable power and efficiency in one. 8s is the way to go. I may try it when it's time for new packs.

Vinger should be able to tell a difference though.

Go break into that Post Office man!

[Matt Nasca]

Originally Posted by Tisondm

I'm really interested in this also. I almost bought the KDE Neu motor but went with the Scorp 1400.

I think the only way you could truly tell the diff is if you had 2 helis side by side with same pinion but the different motors.

One thing's for sure. If you want totally insane unboggable power and efficiency in one. 8s is the way to go. I may try it when it's time for new packs.

Vinger should be able to tell a difference though.

Go break into that Post Office man!

The KDE/NEU is promising. From what I've heard from people using NEU motors is that they provide good power and are better on the packs. Still wondering how they compare to Scorpion though.

[Helipsyko]

Scorp 3026-1210 on 8s 2750 hs 5:20 min of unboggable 3d with 2200mah. No difference between 30c and 35c packs. Top peak 2255 watts when belt broke.

Neu 1708/1,5y on 8s, rest same, gives 5 min of insane power, 3000 watts peaks. 30C pakc gets warm. Have 35c ready but not tested yet.

Found this
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttTIt4ePhBE[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpsPSueIZX0[/ame]

[Matt Nasca]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Neu/KDE motor sitting at post office, pity it's Sunday here, will be able to give you an answer early next week. Been flying the Scorpion 3026/1400KV for longer than a year on both my T500's. Can put some graphs up for you as I am running the ICE 75A.

Hope my investment in the Neu was worth it!

Vinger, have you had a chance to fly the KDE motor yet?

[m14brian]

I bought the whole KDE upgrade for the T500. A little pricy but I am 100% happy with it. The motor is totally worth it. It has tons of power. It is very smooth. I am using the ICE 100 ESC set rpm gov and when I switch into idle 2 doesnt seem like the blades are going 2600 rpm. Right now Im not even flying in idle2 becasue Im still learning 3D so idle1 is plenty for me. Im at 2400 normal, 2500 idle1, 2600 idle2. Im using the suggested setup right from the KDE website.

I really can't compare to another motor because I built the 500 with the KDE upgrades from the start.
In the end it cost me what... more than 1/2 the cost of the 500 kit in upgrades, but the heli flys great. So if you have the $$$ it is worth it.

[Tisondm]

M14Brian

I just ordered the Kde/Neu motor for a second 500 I'm building. What are your Pwm and Timing settings for this motor with the Ice 100?

Thanks

[Bogan]

m14brian, sounds good. A local shop now has these motors in stock and I'm trying to resist buying one right now What pinion are you using, 16t? Also what batts are you using and whats your flight time and mAh usage?

[Helipsyko]

I have from Neu/Castle that all innrunner Neu motors are best with 12Khz and mid timing, the only diffrence in the outrunner Neutrino, uses Outrunner mode.

[m14brian]

I am using the following
Throttle Type: Governor Mode "Set RPM" mode, Motor kV = 1430 and Magnetic Poles = 8)
Governor Gain: Medium (25)
Motor Timing: Normal (5)
PWM Rate: 16kHz

16T pinion 162 stock main
set RPM speeds LOW 2400
MED 2500
HIGH 2600
= 8)
Governor Gain: Low (15) to Medium (25)
Motor Timing: Low (0) to Normal (5)
PWM Rate: 16kHzThrottle Type: Governor Mode (Note: if using the "Set RPM" mode, Motor kV = 1430 and Magnetic Poles = 8)
Governor Gain: Low (15) to Medium (25)
Motor Timing: Low (0) to Normal (5)
PWM Rate: 16kHz

[Vinger]

Originally Posted by RadDuke

Vinger, have you had a chance to fly the KDE motor yet?

Not yet, busy with heli interfering stuff like work etc etc, hope to fly it this weekend. Will give my report as soon as I have flown it.

[Heli G]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Not yet, busy with heli interfering stuff like work etc etc, hope to fly it this weekend. Will give my report as soon as I have flown it.

Vinger, I like the way you say that “work” interferes with RC heli flying…please explain how piloting a Falcon 900 is work?

I’m eagerly waiting to see the Neu motor performance as well.

[Vinger]

She's fitted and ready to rock, will be going out to the field in about two hours and will report on the performance later. Will fly the Scorpion 1400KV equiped TRex directly in comparison with the NEU one...... Stay tuned

[Matt Nasca]

Originally Posted by Vinger

She's fitted and ready to rock, will be going out to the field in about two hours and will report on the performance later. Will fly the Scorpion 1400KV equiped TRex directly in comparison with the NEU one...... Stay tuned

Sweet dude, can't wait!!

[Vinger]

OK, did a few tentative flights with the Neu yesterday, WHOAAAA, so smooth on the power delivery and it makes a ton of it. Currently have it on a 14t pinion, but I think it needs a 15t pinion. The power is really awesome, about double the stock setup and maybe about 15% more than the 1400KV Scorp. Unboggable at 12 deg of pitch and everything comes down cooler than with the Scorpion. Fot my flying style I used to get 5 min on the Scorpion and put back 80% into the batteries, but with the Neu I only used 65% of the packs for the same 5 min. Efficient inrunner motor this!

This is all my humble observation, as I just fitted the motor and running it from the stock Align 60A ESC, will change to the CC ICE 75 for the next day of flying. (only change one thing at a time)

I am sure that with a bit of experimenting that the KDE/Neu motor will be a keeper. The main change for me is how SMOOTH the motor is while delivering the same and more power than the 1400KV Scorpion.

Will keep you guys updated as I explore the power and efficiency of it!!!!

[Matt Nasca]

Originally Posted by Vinger

OK, did a few tentative flights with the Neu yesterday, WHOAAAA, so smooth on the power delivery and it makes a ton of it. Currently have it on a 14t pinion, but I think it needs a 15t pinion. The power is really awesome, about double the stock setup and maybe about 15% more than the 1400KV Scorp. Unboggable at 12 deg of pitch and everything comes down cooler than with the Scorpion. Fot my flying style I used to get 5 min on the Scorpion and put back 80% into the batteries, but with the Neu I only used 65% of the packs for the same 5 min. Efficient inrunner motor this!

This is all my humble observation, as I just fitted the motor and running it from the stock Align 60A ESC, will change to the CC ICE 75 for the next day of flying. (only change one thing at a time)

I am sure that with a bit of experimenting that the KDE/Neu motor will be a keeper. The main change for me is how SMOOTH the motor is while delivering the same and more power than the 1400KV Scorpion.

Will keep you guys updated as I explore the power and efficiency of it!!!!

Thank you Vinger, great review. That is exactly what I'm looking for and to hear that it produces (by feel) at least the same power as the Scorp and is more efficient is huge!

I'm going to order a KDE/NEU today with a 15T. I have a ICE 100 so I'll be looking back for your posts on what settings work well for you. Can't wait to get this motor!