My 450 PRO v2 FBL FPV build

[aForcefulThrust]

So this is my 450 pro v2 fpv build. This is also my first heli ever and has been a great learning experience.





I'm using this hobbywireless 900mhz 500mw Tx and Rx, and WDR770 camera, all running off the flight pack. The flight pack is a 2200 Mah turnigy 30c pack from hobbyking. I'm using stock Align ESC and 450MX 3400kV motor supplied with the 450 pro kit. I like using the training gear because it keeps the tail higher away from grass and helps protect the camera.

I test flew with the supplied Tx/Rx equipment and didn't get very good reception with video cutting out not to far away. It was also very humid that day if that would affect it. While it was working, I tried looking at the TV and it seemed very intimidating to fly from.

The flights are kind of short, about 6 min. I was thinking of using a 4s 2450/2650mah flight pack with a dedicated pack for the tx/camera. But I was concerned with the added weight of 14s and a seperate Tx pack. Anyone think this would be an issue? I really want to keep it as light as possible for performance. I will post updates as I improve and maybe eventually even a flight video!

Any advice appreciated

[aForcefulThrust]

Well today I did allot of flights, none FPV style yet. I tried out a new 3000Mah 3s battery in hopes of longer flights. Balanced the weight fine, heli still has plenty of lift at 90% throttle. But noticed the tail had trouble turning the heli, it seemed very slow and mushy. I'm guessing the added weight makes it harder to turn. How can I fix this?

I was debating a 4s setup but if this is to heavy then maybe 4s is a bad idea...

[aForcefulThrust]

Ok did some flying today. Set up the fpv gear, had the screen right in front me and I was glancing at it to get use to it. I could tell, it was looking to be such a great day.

Well on my second flight, around when the wind picked up a little, the tail just seemed to move all on it's own. the tail stopped and became responsive again, but it was to late. I was disorientated and crashed! Wasn't too bad though..

Not really sure what caused the tail to move like that, maybe related to my vTx 900mhz and 2.4 rx being so close? Or just related to the wind..

[aForcefulThrust]

Today I did a tail boom extention and added 360mm blades to my 450. Also, been flying without the training gear! Harder to tell orientation of heli in air without the balls though. Also switched video Rx/Tx to ch4 and it works flawlessly! Didn't get to fly with the new blades/tail extension bc of rain though.



It's unbalanced towards the tail now, even with my 3000mah 3s battery as far forward as it can go, so i'm really thinking about 4s batteries, but then i would have to get a separate video tx pack, so maybe just a larger 3s battery?
My plans are to add:
OSD with artificial horizon (undecided on OSD type, tips appreciated)
Extended landing gear for 450 proV2. (any tips?)
Possibly upgrade to 4s batteries for longer flights not more power! Or larger 3s battery.
Improved ground station setup with diversity.
Upgrade dx7s transmit power.
and MOST of all, start flying from the camera

[heliaddx]

You might want to consider a stabilization unit such as a Copilot II. This will ensure less crashes - most especially when your video signal goes awry.

It'll give you time to look and save the heli.

For extended landing gear I modded a Trex500 landing gear and attached it to the 450.

Here is a video with where you can take a glance at the heli with the 500 skids:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P-n2dZ-wZY[/ame]

And another vid just to show how FPV can be so much fun:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yENFeFo-QzY[/ame]

[jockstrap]

Hi - looks linteresting but don't you think you're trying to run before you can walk?

It's great to be keen, but being too keen is going to cause you trouble..

First of all - skip the FPV stuff for now and spend a few months learning to fly a little - fpv adds weigh so the last thing you need is training gear..

Also - it's been attempted before buy others.. but going a larger battery just means mor weight and so more power needed to keep that weight in the air - thus even with a larger battery you will end up with roughtly the same flight time in the end - so it's pointless...

2600mah 3S is the largest you should go to stay efficient.

Swinging larger blades gives more lift, but requires more energy - shorter flight times...
Unless you lower the HS and drop the pinion a tooth - this will lower tail authority and may give you issues there - but for simple fpv it should be ok.

Why are the satellites all the way on the tail - not really giving you any better reception..?

The longer tail boom will make it slightly tail heavy, but for FPV, mounting the camera forward should help even it out..

Hope these comments help - they are ment to be constructive not critical..

Most of all - good luck and have fun..

[sl4ppy]

I'll just add that without a filters on your video gear, a 2.4Ghz radio can/will adversely affect the range of your 900Mhz video. Having your satellites SO close to your vTx WILL cause you to crash at range. You want to keep those as far apart as possible.

Also you want to make sure your whip antenna on the vTx is as close to perfectly vertical as you can get. Not vertical will reduce your range and yours looks slight askew. (this is why most FPV experience some video noise while banking, etc.) You didnt mention what kind of vRx you were using, but using a whip antenna for both vRx and vTx will amplify this problem.

You also didnt mention a noise filter on the power you're tapping off of the ESC/main battery. You MUST have one, and without it, you'll be lucky to get any video at all. ESCs create a TON of noise in the power lines.

Lastly, I dont know what your plan is for FPV distances, but 2.4 (ESPECIALLY Spektrum 2.4) has a fairly short range comparatively. Futaba's 2.4 has been field tested to about 2Km, but Spektrums are notoriously short; probably not much further than you can see...

6 mins flight time is about what you an expect to get if not on the high side. I fly my quad FPV rig on a 5 minute timer, as well as my 450 sized helis. I do 6 minutes on my 550 so you're in the right ballpark.

just my $.02

here's some links to the stuff you seem to be missing and I referenced.

Low pass filter for vTx.
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ind...roducts_id=493

Saw filter for vRx.
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ind...roducts_id=468

ESC/Power filter
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ind...roducts_id=533

[Wesley888]

Originally Posted by aForcefulThrust

Extended landing gear for 450 proV2. (any tips?)

I changed mine to a 500 skid. It gives me quite a bit more room and wider stand as well. I may even try a 600 skid when I get a chance.

[aForcefulThrust]

Thanks for the tips guys!

Originally Posted by jockstrap

Swinging larger blades gives more lift, but requires more energy - shorter flight times...
Unless you lower the HS and drop the pinion a tooth - this will lower tail authority and may give you issues there - but for simple fpv it should be ok.

This makes sense... Now I'm second guessing my tail boom extension. Ultimately I think I want to run a 4s flight back though. Would the shorter or longer blades be better for that?

Originally Posted by jockstrap

Why are the satellites all the way on the tail - not really giving you any better reception..?

Well i read that carbon fiber can block the signal so I thought that would be the best place.

Originally Posted by sl4ppy

I'll just add that without a filters on your video gear, a 2.4Ghz radio can/will adversely affect the range of your 900Mhz video. Having your satellites SO close to your vTx WILL cause you to crash at range. You want to keep those as far apart as possible.

Also you want to make sure your whip antenna on the vTx is as close to perfectly vertical as you can get. Not vertical will reduce your range and yours looks slight askew. (this is why most FPV experience some video noise while banking, etc.) You didnt mention what kind of vRx you were using, but using a whip antenna for both vRx and vTx will amplify this problem.

I'm using This Rx. And I check the antenna before I fly.

Originally Posted by sl4ppy

You also didnt mention a noise filter on the power you're tapping off of the ESC/main battery. You MUST have one, and without it, you'll be lucky to get any video at all. ESCs create a TON of noise in the power lines.

Lastly, I dont know what your plan is for FPV distances, but 2.4 (ESPECIALLY Spektrum 2.4) has a fairly short range comparatively. Futaba's 2.4 has been field tested to about 2Km, but Spektrums are notoriously short; probably not much further than you can see...

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/...ost-your-24ghz - I plan to do this mod when I'm really ready to fly FPV.

Originally Posted by sl4ppy

Saw filter for vRx.
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ind...roducts_id=468

Not really sure if i could install this on my Rx?


Also, ordered a 500 skid, esc, and low pass filter

[sl4ppy]

I think you misunderstood a few things. You linked a video receiver, but your issue will be with your video TRANSMITTER and your RC receiver. The video transmitter can cause interference with your RC receiver, especially if your satellite receivers are close to your video receiver causing you to lose control of your helicopter.

900Mhz video and 2.4Ghz systems 'can' play together, but you really, really, really should put some filters on both your video transmitter and video receiver or switch to 72Mhz. Adding the signal booster you linked to your 2.4 RC transmitter will only make the problems worse since the issue isn't with the power of the signal, but rather the algorithm Spektrum uses to do it's frequency hopping. Helicopters don't continue to fly themselves when the radio gets locked out and rebuilding replacing your heli and FPV gear is an expensive proposition.

You really should switch to a FASST system at minimum or a 72 Mhz rc system for the best results. A Spektrum will work, but don't expect to go more than a 150-200 yards or so without potential trouble. Spektrum gear has notoriously poor range and lock-out problems.

There are plenty of threads over on FPVLab discouraging people from using Spektrum gear.

http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread....ll=1#post59327

http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread....ll=1#post57265

I'm certainly not trying to discourage you, and totally understand the eagerness to get going. But a few different choices can save you a TON of money in the long run. FPV is an expensive hobby.

[aForcefulThrust]

Well thanks for the informative responses! I don't know anyone in the hobby so I'm just learning on my own and sometimes I miss things. But I'm very determined to get it working, I've already went from never flying/owning any type of heli to where I am now in 3 months! But my job doesn't give me allot of free time so I haven't even flown it since I added the tail stretch and longer blades. My true dream is AP and I'm really just trying to do this as a learning experience, and it's fun too!

I really wish I would have known about the spektrum issue before I bought a new dx7s But sadly It's what I have so I have to work with it for now anyway. Even with the low pass filter on my video tx I will still have issues with the 2.4 system?

I was thinking my next investment would be to replace my 3gx unit with a stabilization system for the heli incase I do loose signal. Any tips on the best one for my heli/what i'm trying to do?

After I fly some with the tail boom extension I will make up my mind on keeping it or reverting back, but I really like the bigger selection of 325mm blades I have to choose from using the stock boom.

[jockstrap]

Have a look at the Hobbyking 5.8ghz TX/RX video systems - quite cheap and may be your next best bet to work alongside 2.4ghz radio..

Be careful of fpv gear between 800mhz and 1.2ghz as that's where a lot of the GSM mobile phone stuff lives so you'd wanna make sure you can use that frequency where you are..

[hga77]

Here's my mess
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=395975

She so ugly isn't she? lol

[aForcefulThrust]

After MUCH frustration last night with stripped hex screwes stupid green threadlock! I finnaly got 500 size landing gear installed on my heli. It just looks great, I love it! So much easier to land and gives tail some clearance on grass, just what I was looking for.



But, I have 2 more stripped screws(no threadlock on these) both on the back of the frame where the tail booms connects to the frame. Whats the best way to get these out? I got a screw extractor set but it's not working... I'm really getting sick of these hex screws!

Also, I flew today for the first time after installing the extended tail boom/blades. The longer boom/blades combined with the recent 2.0 update on the 3GX unit, and I have to say it flies flawlessly now, I just love it feels and handles in the air. Very stable, with power to spare.

When I was flying today I also had a monitor setup outside and was trying to grasp flying from the camera, fpv style. I can say I probably flew a solid 30 seconds from the camera I know that sounds short, but was allot for my skill level. Then I got worried about loosing signal so I spotted the heli and wow it was so small! Overall, video signal stayed locked in the whole time with just one real dropout wich could have possibly led to crash. Can't really estimate how far away I was, but it was probably the farthest and highest I've ever taken it. Maybe next time I will get a pic of the monitor/vRx setup.

What would be a fairly inexpensive way i could increase my range and feel more confident flying fpv style?

Thanks for replies keep them coming! Ideas/tips always welcome.

[hga77]

Try drilling into the center of the stripped screws with a tiny drill bit. Then it should just fall out. Careful you don't damage the screw holes while you do this. I've never done it myself by I read it loads and in theory it should work.

With regards to range, 2.4ghz for rc link is your weakness really especially if it's on Spektrum. Have a look what happened to crash9:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1UvK3gMKfY[/ame]

I hear Futaba Fasst is slightly more reliable for range but again it's still 2.4ghz so make sure you don't go beyond whatever your link is comfortable with.

For 900mhz vtx and 2.4ghz rtx get this filter and put it on your vtx:
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ind...roducts_id=493

What reasons made you go with 900mhz? (I know lower frequency implies more range and less multipath interference, but what else?)

I want to start a trex450 sport build for fpv and will be on 1.3ghz, this:
http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ind...roducts_id=446

Newer transmitter design, smaller, lighter and is proven since it's a favourite choice with TBS, Trappy, Sanders (Ssassen) and many other popular fpv'ers.

I also want to convert to 4s, looking at:

Motor: Scorpion 2221-12 (13t pinion)

Esc: Kontronik Koby 55

Flight Battery:
-- ZIPPY Flightmax 2450mAh 4S1P 30C
-- Turnigy nano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70C

Video Battery:
-- Rhino 460mAh 3S 11.1v 20C
-- Hyperion G3 CX - 3S 320mAh

FPV:
- 1.3ghz 500mw lawmate vtx
- WDR750 OSD Colour Camera 600 Lines SONY Super HAD II
- EzOSD
- EzUHF
- 12v

Blades: SpinBlades Asymmetrical Rotor Blades
"Asymmetrical rotor blades are increasing the efficiency considerably. Due to the asymmetrical profile the lift is increased and the drag reduced, therefore the flight endurance is increased up to 100 %. The use of these blades is recommended to pilots not interested in 3 D flights, for pilots who just want to have fun and for beginners."

FBL head: RJX 450

FBL Controller: Beastx (or Spartan VX1 if released on time!)T

FBL Controller:
urnigy nano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70CTTurnigy
sfnano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70Curnigy nano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70C

[aForcefulThrust]

Originally Posted by hga77

With regards to range, 2.4ghz for rc link is your weakness really especially if it's on Spektrum. Have a look what happened to crash9:

Well I plan to boost the signal on my radio tx very soon doing this mod. Hopefully that would help with the range.

Originally Posted by hga77

What reasons made you go with 900mhz? (I know lower frequency implies more range and less multipath interference, but what else?)

Well I'm still pretty inexperience on wireless frequencies, and choosing 900mhz was very hard. I debated allot, but in the end I went with 900mhz because I read it had the best penetrating power through objects. Now that I'm learning about harmonics, I kind of wish I went with a different frequency, but I have what I have so have to make the best of it for now! My next purchase will be the low pass filter.

Originally Posted by hga77

I also want to convert to 4s, looking at:

Motor: Scorpion 2221-12 (13t pinion)

Esc: Kontronik Koby 55

Flight Battery:
-- ZIPPY Flightmax 2450mAh 4S1P 30C
-- Turnigy nano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70C

Video Battery:
-- Rhino 460mAh 3S 11.1v 20C
-- Hyperion G3 CX - 3S 320mAh

FPV:
- 1.3ghz 500mw lawmate vtx
- WDR750 OSD Colour Camera 600 Lines SONY Super HAD II
- EzOSD
- EzUHF
- 12v

Blades: SpinBlades Asymmetrical Rotor Blades
"Asymmetrical rotor blades are increasing the efficiency considerably. Due to the asymmetrical profile the lift is increased and the drag reduced, therefore the flight endurance is increased up to 100 %. The use of these blades is recommended to pilots not interested in 3 D flights, for pilots who just want to have fun and for beginners."

FBL head: RJX 450

FBL Controller: Beastx (or Spartan VX1 if released on time!)T

FBL Controller:
urnigy nano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70CTTurnigy
sfnano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70Curnigy nano-tech 2650mah 4S 35~70C

Looks like some good equipment! I'm very very interested in a 4s upgrade, but have some questions for you. Why the lower kv rated scorpion motor and 13t pinion? Is that the best for 4s?

If I understand this corectly, the lower kv motor will turn slower, and the 13t(vs 15t stock) pinion will reduce headpseed ever more, so dosen't this kind of make upgrading to 4s kind of pointless? What if I just ran at a lower throttle curve instead of getting a lower kv motor?

[l14m]

Don't run a low throttle curve these motors are most eficient when running at 90-100% thus running a lower kv with 4s will give the similar results to lowering the throttle curve but still have the motor running at its most eficient.
Rc 2.4gh. Is fine for Los non fpv but it WILL be hit and miss with fpv gear for range !!!!
The asymmetric Spinblades are great but will take a few flights to dial in the best head speed as you really want them to spin with the lowest speed as possible to increase your flight. Just remember if you do lower your head speed with different toothed pinions that your heli will react differently to movements !
Batteries, well I've just seen a guy called Jarrod run two 2700 3s lipos together and managed a flight of 23 mins but this was just hovering, still impressive. I chose to run 2450 4s turnigy. A. Because thre cheeeeeep and I get roughly 8-10 mins flight time and 8-10 mins flying a heli fpv is quite some concentration compared to flying a plane (relaxed easy).
Firstly just fly your field with a boundary of 300m max and enjoy yourself. I spent far too long chasing distance and missed far too much flying time when I could have been enjoying just flying and building up slowly.
Regards Liam

[aForcefulThrust]

Thanks for your input! So im currently running with a steady throttle curve of 70% and a stock 15t pinion. I would get longer flight times if I switched to say a 13 or 12t pinion and ran at 90-100% throttle? Just want to make sure im getting this right.. thanks again for the info guys!

I think tuning the motor and maybe upgrading to 4s is my next step, followed by a ground station so I can really start fpving! I flew this weekend and im noticing im getting allot better! feels so good to fly haha.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[aForcefulThrust]

Here are some updated pics


On the way is a low battery alarm, power line filter, and low pass filter.

The tail is heavy so I have to add weight to the nose.. Thinking of getting a bigger 3s battery or going 4s still, can't decide

[Wesley888]

Is that a lighter on the battery? That look dangerous.