Question on Anderson Powerpoles vs EC5

[rdlohr]

Thanks. Anybody got some good pictures of how these look on a 600 or 500 size heli? I'm a bit worried about bulk.

Rick

[flerpie]

Well, I've heard it said that APP works best as charger
connectors, I think that was due to bulk. They're definately
too big in my opinion for 250 or 450. I can snap a pic of
a red/black connector pair up against a 500 frame if you like.

[Gregor99]

Which APP size are talking about here? I have the APP 45s on my 450, 500 and 600.

[flerpie]

Guess we need some pics. One person's big/bulky may not
be the same for someone else. Please show yours, gregor.
I have the smallest size they make and haven't put them in a build yet.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by flerpie

Well, I've heard it said that APP works best as charger
connectors, I think that was due to bulk. They're definately
too big in my opinion for 250 or 450. I can snap a pic of
a red/black connector pair up against a 500 frame if you like.

Thanks much, but no need to now (unless someone else would like them). All things considered combined with the fact that I have 15 packs of EC5s already in my hands, I'm going EC5s for this build.

By the way, I rigged up a couple of EC5s and did some tests. I realize this thread has nothing to do with Deans but since I got the data, I figured I would share my thoughts.
Soldering: Much easier than Deans.
Pull apart pressure: The EC5s seemed easier than the Deans and they came apart with a consistent loosening rather than the sudden "let go" with a Deans. All in all, I like the good solid connection.

Not that I have anything bad about the APPs. I didn't have any here to try.

Rick

[Scottyb410]

I will post some of my 500 when I get home.

[flerpie]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

Not that I have anything bad about the APPs. I didn't have any here to try.
Rick

Rick - do keep them in mind tho'. They have advantages and I like them
ALOT, they were just too bulky for my 250 & 450. They look right sized
against a 500 though. When ya get bored get a few - I bets you'll like them.

Deans was conceived and filled a good need 25 years ago. The need hasn't
changed, though everything else has.
Deans = old technology, hard to pull apart, more insertion force too.
But this is just a builder's preference is all.

I think I'm going to hack apart an EC5 (keeping proper polarity) so that I
have 2 seperate wires to connect/disconnect.

[bmclaurin]

I use APP's on my T500 and love them for all the reasons stated in this thread. Here are some pics of them in action. I also threw in a couple pics with them next to an EC5 for size comparison purposes. The 4th pic shows all 3 of the connector sizes (15/30/45 amp) that fit into the standard PP45 housing, along with the dedicated crimper tool (highly recommended), next to a Taco Bell sauce packet for scale. The 5th pic shows how the housing size compares with just one side of each connector, and the last pic shows the housing sizes when connected together. Hope this helps...

[flerpie]

Didn't realize they're smaller than an EC5. I'll rethink my lipo
connectors now and get some more APP on order

[Diviner]

A little word of caution. I have some Turnigy 6s 5000 40c batteries that have 8 gauge wire. 35c and under use 10 gauge. I tried and tried to get them into a 45 amp housing. No deal. So on my 600 I had to use 75 amp housings. They are real big. 10 gauge is ok for 45 amp housings.

I wish there was something between the 45a and 75a.

[flerpie]

Hi Jahmer
Insulation too fat for the housing or amount of wire hairs too much for the crimp?

[Diviner]

Insulation. I tried dremeling the insulation back but I couldn't get it consistent and ended up hacking up the wires. So when you jump to 75a housings, you need a new crimper. Plus the ends are real thick, so it takes a lot of pressure, even with the crimper. What started as a simple project turned into 3 orders totaling $400 (but I have lot of connectors left over). But the good news it I got 2 free powerwerks black t-shirts out of the deal. But I really like them (both the connectors and the T-shirts ).

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by bmclaurin

I use APP's on my T500 and love them for all the reasons stated in this thread. Here are some pics of them in action. I also threw in a couple pics with them next to an EC5 for size comparison purposes. The 4th pic shows all 3 of the connector sizes (15/30/45 amp) that fit into the standard PP45 housing, along with the dedicated crimper tool (highly recommended), next to a Taco Bell sauce packet for scale. The 5th pic shows how the housing size compares with just one side of each connector, and the last pic shows the housing sizes when connected together. Hope this helps...

Your pictures are eye opening. I would have guessed the APPs to be bulkier.

I Installed some of my EC5s and one side affect of soldering thick wire, 10 gauge, is that the solder seeps back the wire and makes it stiff. The longer you keep it heated, the farther back you will have straightened wire. I heated one a little too long and can't say I am happy with that result. You would never have that problem with crimping.

Would you have really recommended the APP45s for a Logo 600E on 10S (2 5S packs). If they intended them for higher current application like this, I really wish they would rate them accordingly. It would make decisions like this much easier for people.

Rick

[bmclaurin]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

Your pictures are eye opening. I would have guessed the APPs to be bulkier.

Rick, not sure if you noticed, but that's one of your gyro/rx mounts in there...love it.

Originally Posted by rdlohr

I Installed some of my EC5s and one side affect of soldering thick wire, 10 gauge, is that the solder seeps back the wire and makes it stiff. The longer you keep it heated, the farther back you will have straightened wire. I heated one a little too long and can't say I am happy with that result. You would never have that problem with crimping.

This was the main reason I went with APP's over EC5's. All of my 6S packs use 10AWG wire, and it's a bear to get it properly tinned for soldering. With the APP's, you're done literally in seconds with no potential damage or stiffening to the wire.

Originally Posted by rdlohr

Would you have really recommended the APP45s for a Logo 600E on 10S (2 5S packs). If they intended them for higher current application like this, I really wish they would rate them accordingly. It would make decisions like this much easier for people.

I think they would be more than up to that task, provided that the battery wire is not thicker than 10AWG. As previously stated, 10AWG is the upper limit that the PP45 housings can accommodate from a size perspective.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

I Installed some of my EC5s and one side affect of soldering thick wire, 10 gauge, is that the solder seeps back the wire and makes it stiff.

It gets even worse if you are trying to also connect a BEC to the same EC5. While the bigger ESC wires just get stiff, the smaller BEC wire becomes brittle. Since this is the connection that gets handled alot, plugging and unplugging packs, fraying and breaking is likely. I like the EC5s, but after trying to fit them on my 600, I gave up and moved to APPs.

Originally Posted by rdlohr

If they intended them for higher current application like this, I really wish they would rate them accordingly.

Current ratings are based on heat build up and its a sliding scale. Some heat on high current application is OK and part of the design. APP is the only connector (I'm aware of) that publishes a "Tempature Rise Chart" which shows the heat rise vs amps. They also show amps vs duration. Which is important for helicopter applications due to the peaky nature of power consumption. Using a larger gauge wire helps wick away some of the heat which is why the chart lists the rise differently for 3 gauges. Add a little wind and the current capabilities increase even more.

http://www.powerwerx.com/techdata/PP45.pdf

[flerpie]

I'm looking at APP for making a 3S series adapter. A little solid block
that you plug in 2 lipos....the other side goes to the ESC. I dislike 3S
series adapters with long wires on them.

[Gregor99]

I did that to make two parallel charging blocks (2 packs per block). I really like how these things clip together in a variety of different configurations.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by bmclaurin

Rick, not sure if you noticed, but that's one of your gyro/rx mounts in there...love it.

Excellent! Thanks!

Originally Posted by gregor

It gets even worse if you are trying to also connect a BEC to the same EC5. While the bigger ESC wires just get stiff, the smaller BEC wire becomes brittle. Since this is the connection that gets handled alot, plugging and unplugging packs, fraying and breaking is likely.

Exactly!



This is my point. The charts show max currents around the rated 45 Amps so we seem to be using them, safely, well beyond their rated specs.

Rick

[bmclaurin]

Originally Posted by gregor

It gets even worse if you are trying to also connect a BEC to the same EC5. While the bigger ESC wires just get stiff, the smaller BEC wire becomes brittle. Since this is the connection that gets handled alot, plugging and unplugging packs, fraying and breaking is likely. I like the EC5s, but after trying to fit them on my 600, I gave up and moved to APPs.

Is it possible to crimp both the ESC and BEC wires together in one 45 amp PP connector? IIRC, my CC100 uses 10awg wire, so it would be quite tight in there. do you have to resort to soldering to run an ext BEC?

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

This is my point. The charts show max currents around the rated 45 Amps so we seem to be using them, safely, well beyond their rated specs.

Rick

But it also shows that it can handle 60 amps for 4 seconds with 10 gauge wire. I guess this begs the 1000 dollar question. What kind of amps are you drawing with that setup? My 8s 600 had peaks of just over 70 amps but those would last about 1 second. 10s or 12s would be lower for same wattage. A pilot that puts alot of hurt on the packs might be able heat them more than I do.

But here is another data point. I was doing some discharge tests on my recently aquired Voltz 3300 6s 35c packs. Sustained discharge tests were 20 amps continuous (or 6c), for 50% of the packs. There was noticable warming on the pack's 10 gauge wire. Moreso than the APP connector. We tend to focus only on the connector. But the whole current carrying system is prone to the same concerns. All that being said, I do wish for a tad more headroom in the connector capacity. Not that I need it.

Originally Posted by bmclaurin

Is it possible to crimp both the ESC and BEC wires together in one 45 amp PP connector? IIRC, my CC100 uses 10awg wire, so it would be quite tight in there. do you have to resort to soldering to run an ext BEC?

Correct, very tight. Far from ideal, but better than the soldered connections. I ended up using a small amount of silicone lube and gently poked the insulation in using the tip of a 1.5mm hex wrench.

Not a great solution. But there's no worries about the soldered BEC connections fraying. For those with an Rx pack onboard, this is a non-issue. Something to think about.