600e Pro Tail Blow Outs

[Smoggie]

Thee 85mm blades would give you less thrust than two 95mm blades, so that would seem like a strange way to go?
If the object of the exercise is to increase the hold of the tail then I'd expect to have to use three blades of the same size as the two blade tail (95mm).. which should give a roughly 30% increase in tail thrust.

[jmtyndall]

Didn't bother doing any sort of calcs. Sometimes going to a three blade setup necessitates dropping a blade size. Just an off-hand suggestion made while drinking a beer and eating dinner

[Smoggie]

I'm an engineer, I have to do calcs!..

A quick fag-packet calc says you would loose some tail authority with a 3 blade 85mm tail over the standard two blade 95mm tail... So it would be a step backward on a heli already short of tail authority.
Three 95mm blades would be fine i'm sure. I run two 105mm blades on mine and it works great but needs a boom stretch to be safe.

[Heli.Maniac]

On other helis with 2 bladed tail and good tail ratio and blade size, doing a 3 bladed tail conversion would normally mean to either drop the tail ratio or go down on blade size. But on the 600 we want to increase the tail authority and keeping same blade size will probably bring us right at the sweet spot of available tail thrust even for lower headspeeds. Now for guys that frequently do headspeeds of 2400+ there may be some issues on the long term with material fatigue, especially the tail gears. Either way for headspeeds that high, tail authority doesn't seem to be an issue already so maybe a 3b conversion may not be worth it in those cases (except for bling factor).

[apper001]

Isn't there some maths/calc you can do to check main rpm, main thrust versus tail ratio, tail thrust to get a nice rpm range to fly with a secure tail all the time.

need to check that darkhorse calc...

[jmtyndall]

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

I'm an engineer, I have to do calcs!..

A quick fag-packet calc says you would loose some tail authority with a 3 blade 85mm tail over the standard two blade 95mm tail... So it would be a step backward on a heli already short of tail authority.
Three 95mm blades would be fine i'm sure. I run two 105mm blades on mine and it works great but needs a boom stretch to be safe.

Me too, but after work I just don't feel like doing any more haha

[cobieg]

Is the nitro auto gear mod. being used in this config. If so could 85mm blades be used?

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by cobieg

Is the nitro auto gear mod. being used in this config. If so could 85mm blades be used?

I'm not sure about the nitro gears but the gears from the older ESP version have been used which speed up the tail allowing stock 95mm tails to be used at less than screaming headspeed. You wouldnt want to use 85mm tails on a 600.

[cobieg]

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

I'm not sure about the nitro gears but the gears from the older ESP version have been used which speed up the tail allowing stock 95mm tails to be used at less than screaming headspeed. You wouldnt want to use 85mm tails on a 600.

I was thinking of a scale model with lower head speed say, 1500 rpm.
I run my 4 blade scale 600 with the nitro/esp gear ( I think they are the same ) and have to use 105mm. The tail will try to come around on a hard collective input. I found out that it doesn't like tic-tocks! It does loops and rolls nice though.

[lmpf14991]

I have another blow out yestarday when doing a lopings whith my 600 pro efl. Did align solve this problem in the new 600x?

[Heli.Maniac]

Originally Posted by lmpf14991

I have another blow out yestarday when doing a lopings whith my 600 pro efl. Did align solve this problem in the new 600x?

AFAIK there is no 600X and the latest kit is the older 600L, which has the same tail gear ratio and tail blade size as the older 600E Pro kits. Still, there are some options to try to improve the tail performance on this model.

[lmpf14991]

Originally Posted by Heli.Maniac

AFAIK there is no 600X and the latest kit is the older 600L, which has the same tail gear ratio and tail blade size as the older 600E Pro kits. Still, there are some options to try to improve the tail performance on this model.

Hello.
What upgrades can i ude to get bet tail autority?
Tanks
Luis

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by lmpf14991

Hello.
What upgrades can i ude to get bet tail autority?
Tanks
Luis

A few options:

1. Use the higher ratio Mod0.6 Auto and tail drive gears off the older 600ESP
2. Do a mild 'stretch' using cut down 700e parts and fit 105mm tail blades
3. Use the new three blade tail.

[Heli.Maniac]

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

A few options:

1. Do a mild 'stretch' using cut down 700e parts and fit 105mm tail blades

For milder flight styles, one can get away with just elongating the rear hole on the boom and sliding the tail case further just a little bit. That small extra clearance is enough to allow the use of 105mm tail blades with 600mm mains without causing any issues with the TT inside the boom. Up until decommissioning my 600E Pro a year ago, with this mod I could do hard 3D without any issues with blade interaction like in the past. It's just another relatively safe alternative for fixing tail authority issues.

[nabl74]

Ive been running 2450headspeed on my 600L and never had tail gears fail apart from my single only incident in 18months last month due to main bearings being obliterated in the main shaft block holders. Due to higher headspeed? maybe / maybe not.. But gears have thus far been solid at 2450 for me.

I managed to auto it down safely so this bird will live again very soon.

[wifeorheli?]

I installed the 550e 3 blade tail setup with the matching align tail blades. Blow outs are gone +-13° full pitch inverted reverse flying rock solid now. Get the 3 blade tail and be done!

[szaki75]

had the 3blade tail unit it on my 600e pro DFC and could still produce blow out in full collective tail-in inverted cw funnel... though the tail performance was much better than with 2blades.

i used 95mm (not 3x 90mm) tail blades with 2250hs and +/- 12° collective.

[wifeorheli?]

Might be the difference I'm still running 2400 hs. I was thinking of lowering now but I guess the thrust just isn't there....