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Main Forum - Helicopter Talk R/C Helicopters and the people who fly them. VENDOR TOPICS DO NOT GO HERE. Full Scale Heli threads go in OT please |
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02-01-2014, 10:23 PM | #41 (permalink) |
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You really miss the point,they were more expensive back then but that screws up your conspiracy price fixing theory.
OMG now this fool thinks I'm Xrayted. LMAO |
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02-01-2014, 10:26 PM | #42 (permalink) |
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Yeah I saw that too. Another conspiracy
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
02-01-2014, 10:29 PM | #43 (permalink) | |
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The bottom will not just magically fall out of a market without some consideration of the past. The only viable way to prove the over or under inflation of a market is to consider the time step intervals of actual dollar - value ratio year over year for the same goods.
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02-01-2014, 10:33 PM | #44 (permalink) | |
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BUT, a lot of the time once the setup is done, we can make 100 parts in the same amount of time it takes us to make that first one, if they're ordering parts on a production scale, the cost is not as much as it sounds like, and i don't believe it's justification for the huge inflation we pay for on these parts
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02-01-2014, 10:36 PM | #45 (permalink) | |
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02-01-2014, 10:41 PM | #46 (permalink) | |
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Tony Synergy 516, Gaui R-5 Speed (RIP), Cypher Vtol Jet (RIP), Spirit FBL, Hobbywing and Scorpion Tribunus ESC, Xnova motors. The girl in my DX9 tells them all what to do |
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02-01-2014, 10:45 PM | #47 (permalink) | |
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The purchasing power of 1$ 30 years ago is more than the purchasing power of 1$ today -> even cheaper. You aren't exactly proving your point.
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02-01-2014, 10:46 PM | #48 (permalink) |
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I thought the market fell out when I stopped paying 65.00 for a 20C 3S lipo 5 years ago. In all fairness, there has never been a better time to get into this hobby. Decent entry level products are light years ahead of mid level stuff from 5-10years ago.
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02-01-2014, 10:56 PM | #49 (permalink) |
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No kidding.
Now go pay $500 for a box full of Chinese crap and tell us all how it was so much better than paying $2500 for quality stuff made in America in 1983, that should cost $25000 now--for a toy helicopter--if we only understood your own strange math. We get it, we really do. |
02-01-2014, 11:01 PM | #50 (permalink) |
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I think you are right. The lipo thing is something we all learn. I'm not sure why Tower and Horizon (and LHS) think they can charge the prices they do. I think you can see from the responses in this thread that there are people who will pay any price, never think about value or actual costs, and just buy, though.
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02-01-2014, 11:03 PM | #51 (permalink) |
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There is no bottom to fall out. Look at how many awesome choices are on the market. Align, Avant, Blade, Compass, Gaui, KDS, JR, MSH, Mikado, SAB, Synergy, ThunderTiger, and that's just a very short list. Meanwhile plenty of companies that were big names recently are largely gone, at least from mainstream, Century and Miniature Aircraft come to mind. There are cheaper frames out there like the one HK is selling and the KDS innova line (before they put out the agile). But you get what you pay for. And there are still more companies jumping in.
There's two stories to this I think: From the manufacturer's standpoint: you have an incredibly over saturated market. You have very expensive work to build a prototype, much less getting tooled up and producing in volume. Then you have to find a way to get it to customers, and actually get customers to pay attention to you. The market is pretty much winner-take-all. Who wants to buy what they perceive to be as second best in the price range they want? Of course there's differing opinions so not everyone buys exactly the same thing, but if what you're selling isn't the hot thing, you aren't selling many of them. And there's a huge liability risk. From a retailers standpoint: The internet and efficiency/cost of shipping now has totally changed this game. How many new brick and mortar hobby shops do you know of that have popped up? Even the online retailers.. ReadyHeli? It's not like they don't know how to be on top.. because they were at one point. Lots of people bypass the hobby shops for their country's distributors and large online vendors but it's not that hard to step around even them and order straight from overseas for things like batteries. Seriously, this is a hard market. I would love to make an RC product. I have ideas and ability but I make more money elsewhere for far less risk. There is more money in just about any other market. And even within RC if you want to make money, helicopter airframes are just about your WORST choice. I can assure you, no one is getting rich selling just airframes.
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02-01-2014, 11:06 PM | #52 (permalink) |
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I didn't go down the 30-years-ago trail. Someone else did. You aren't exactly proving your COMPREHSION ability (as stated). This wasn't about the value of helis in 1984. It was about the value now. It drifted into stupid comparisons about the cost of things then, and now, but that wasn't my doing.
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02-01-2014, 11:08 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
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In my opinion the fiberglass canopies are WAY WAY overpriced.....$135 for a friggen 800 class canopy...what a joke. |
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02-01-2014, 11:13 PM | #54 (permalink) | |
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02-01-2014, 11:13 PM | #55 (permalink) | |
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Dogs come when called. Cats take a message and get back to you later.
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02-01-2014, 11:21 PM | #56 (permalink) | |
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For trying not to be too provocative (as stated in your first post), you are sure doing a good job creating bad examples with shaky logic to prove your point, then criticizing people's comprehension when they point out the holes in your logic. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Anyways, more power to you trying to prove the price fixing idea. The message I am getting from the responses so far: - Development costs to bring a "new" model to market are huge; - Companies have to make up those costs somehow; - and, Companies are going to charge you what they need to re-coup those costs and make some profit as well. If 5 existing heli kits from 5 manufacturers cost about the same, the 6th guy that comes along will likely have to charge the same. If they go cheaper, they run the risk of being a "clone" (and it is likely that is what they are). Alternatively, if they go more expensive, the company needs to be able to justify the added expense ("boutique" heli brand, speed application, etc.).
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02-01-2014, 11:24 PM | #57 (permalink) |
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The truth hurts sometimes. When trying to have a discussion and someone wants to say, but back when I had my horse shoed it was like this and I don't care about the tires on your car...you must listen to my disruptive stories about horse-shoeing (you must politely let me take your topic down my road), then I think the truth is in order.
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02-01-2014, 11:32 PM | #58 (permalink) | |
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Yes, I misspelled comprehension. You got me. Now try again at the rest of it. As I have stated, development costs have been minimal because advances have been incremental. Your second point is moot because of #1. And #3 is true only as long as customers stand for it, AND THEN THE BOTTOM FALLS OUT. wth |
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02-01-2014, 11:49 PM | #59 (permalink) |
Join Date: Feb 2011
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There are generic products in pharmaceutical market. Usually much cheaper than oryginals. After patent exipres they are free to be introduced on the market. All they need is proof of bioequivalence. No expensive phase I-III clinical trials.
For me clones give us idea of real manufacturing costs. Considering they use weaker materials clone manufacurers make profit on them anyway. Compare original VBar price $475 to price of clones on ebay $42. Compare $350 Scorpion to $48 700 motor from HK. Compare Align 700 to $200 Assault 700. There are ways around to make cheap build. Clones have their quality issues, no guarantee etc. If brand name kits were reasonably priced no one would consider buying clones. I currently build 800 based on Gartt GT700 DFC. I will put some Align part on it. Final cost I estimate around $1000. Compare it to Trekker price tag. I am not the only one... Look at this: My friend finished his Assault based 800 yesterday. Maiden planned for today. I have maidened stock Gartt GT700 DFC . 7 flights. I plan to stretch it to 800. 700, 800, 700, 600, 550 (4 of them already flyable and kicking): Check my builds: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=584038 https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=489222 For me building reliable clone is more fun than going easy way and buying overpriced brand name kit. I succeded with 700 and I am on the way to succede with 800. I have oryginals. 600 EFL PRO and Gaui X5. They are fine. I like my stretched 700 more ; ) |
02-02-2014, 12:01 AM | #60 (permalink) |
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How dare you state the truth? LOL
Wait, man. If we consider that in 1980 a $500 (today's $) cost $2000 and that with inflation that would be $5000 and that we earned less then so it would be actually worth $10000 (but we can't explain this to young whippersnappers because they don't understand simple math from FOX News), then we would all understand that todays kits are an incredible value. |
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