First flights Jive Pro 120 Pyro 750 comp.

[taosgraveyard]

Yes... 32C

Where I am now, it just became summer

I am not at my helifreak location, which I don't update week to week

much of the time I live in buenos aires argentina

And I am retired and I travel a LOT

I never update my location. My legal address is Waterford CT

[taosgraveyard]

I have not loaded the lates firmware. My jive pro was purchased in August 2014. Next time I am at the club ( we have private hangars, all my helis are there ) I will check what the label says WRT version of firmware

[Magneto]

50 Flights later @80% and less pitch 13.5 was too much for this light machine no cutouts at all with this combo!

[OverTemp]

So it shut down on you? I don't get it.

[Magneto]

No shut downs @78% then increased it to 80% w less pitch than the maiden flights no shutdowns with the Pyro 750 comp and Jive Pro combo.

[OverTemp]

That's great news!

[Vinger]

Great for your setup. Tried my JPro on Banshee, even lighter than E700, with Scorpion 4530 homewound, YY terminations and latest firmware on JPro, can cause overamp slowdown on every flight as soon as continues current goes over 140A or spikes over 170A. This just proves to me that the JPro120 is more suited for 600 machines.

Strange, I had a HJive on before and it handled everything I could throw at it, logged continues 160A and spikes of over 220A.... Guess the HJ or Kosmik is going on it... Maybe even one of the new Sorpion 14S SBEC ESC.....

[alexf1852]

Makes me think that Kontronik wants to sell more Kosmiks for 700 size and larger. Hence they purposely programmed the 120's against usage in larger than 600 class machines. That's just my hunch anyway.

[smsodhi]

Originally Posted by Vinger

... Maybe even one of the new Sorpion 14S SBEC ESC.....

My thoughts have gone towards the new scorpion esc, also the upcoming hobbywing 160HV V3 (with inbuilt bec) or the king kong 3 with an external bec (R2 prototyping HV2bec) are my current options now for a 14S 160 ESC.

[Vinger]

Originally Posted by smsodhi

My thoughts have gone towards the new scorpion esc, also the upcoming hobbywing 160HV V3 (with inbuilt bec) or the king kong 3 with an external bec (R2 prototyping HV2bec) are my current options now for a 14S 160 ESC.

Yes the Scorpion surely looking good and at just above half the price of the Kosmik 160A locally.

[OverTemp]

Total curiosity. Has anyone run objective 12S tests of the Kosmik 160 and 200 against the old PowerJIVE and HeliJIVE? Wondering, quantitatively, discounting the names of the ESCs, how much extra performance the Kosmik weight and expense are buying us over the legacy hardware. Especially if we don't want to run 14S nor HV.

FWIW, and unrelated, some local sponsored guys just switched their 800s from 14S back to 12S. Thought that was interesting.

[mahbouni]

Just because you can push a HeliJive to double it's rated performance doesn't mean that is good for it. Surely excessive heat will degrade the components over time. Perhaps the more conservative software limits in the Jive Pro are there to protect the hardware. Perhaps it saves Kontronik money from warranty claims from people who take it for granted that they can push the ESC to double it's rated performance.

[OverTemp]

A lot of speculation. And the Kosmik seems to run especially hot.

It would just be nice to know definitively what we are buying.

[Vinger]

Originally Posted by mahbouni

Just because you can push a HeliJive to double it's rated performance doesn't mean that is good for it. Surely excessive heat will degrade the components over time. Perhaps the more conservative software limits in the Jive Pro are there to protect the hardware. Perhaps it saves Kontronik money from warranty claims from people who take it for granted that they can push the ESC to double it's rated performance.

Now taken down from Kontronik's website, but they stated that fitting the heat sink to the older Jive series will increase the current handling. The quote is from the 80A Jive, but the same was stated for the PowerJive and HeliJive when they were still on their website.

Noticeable is the huge cooling plate. It is perfectly connected with the power parts, provides good heat transfer and enables additional cooling to be realized. It is possible to raise the performance enormously by installing an additional air or water cooler system. The naming 80+ means: minimum 80 A. Extra cooling may double the performance of JIVE ESCs.

From manual

4.5 Cooling/Fixing
Sufficient cooling increases efficiency and lifespan
of the ESC. The HELI JIVE ESC improves
performance with increased cooling. If the HELI
JIVE ESC is fixed on the model leave the cooling
plate uncovered (Heatsink, #9470). Other, heavier
heatsinks may put mechanical pressure on the
ESC and may damage the ESC.

[mahbouni]

I wonder how much money it cost them to warranty those marketing statements.

[dl7uae]

OK, let us remain technically:

The theoretical current limit is the ID and IDM per single transistor, multiplied by the number of FETs in parallel in each of the 6 half-bridges.

Unfortunately other parameters play also a role, leading to heat:
RDS, IAR, EAS and the thermal resistance.

In this relation, still far below ID/IDM, a better cooling may allow more current per FET because of more heat dissipated. Btw: I doubt that the mere mounting of a heat sink justifies a reliable promise of more power as long as it is not coupled with forced convection.

So easy, so complex..

A KOSMIK definitely contains much more hardware than a H/JIVE. Partly I doubt the effect behind the effort.

I think the complained problems are more due to the setting of the limiters (firmware).

Complained: we could see it already several times: a KOSMIK can handle 300..400 amps, a H/JIVE can not.

And: as I've often said, - the whole is a system in which the characteristics of the motor play a significant role. Power madness, show mercy..

[OverTemp]

Thanks man. Appreciate the theory! What do you mean extra hardware and you doubt the effort?

[Vinger]

Do not get me wrong, I never wanted Kosmik performance from a JPro, only would like the JPro to be on par with the performance a HJive used to give. They are of the same physical construction so heat dissipation should be the same between the JPro and HJive, so heat should not be an issue.

To me power handling of the JPro is an issue as it cannot do what the older HJive or PowerJive could do. Is this progress?

[taosgraveyard]

Is this progress?

Well, I too am disappointed that the jive pro can't handle the "loads or stated rating" that the older jives can

However whether the pro is progress is a relative thing

In my application , it's not shutting down, and I have a Kosmic governor and HV BEC. So for me, it's progress... For that helicopter and motor anyway

However, I have helis in my fleet, that have HV servos, that aren't suitable for the jive pro. I will have to keep helijive or jive on them


And that really is disappointing

And if they discontinue the helijives and jives, I'll have to use a different brand ESC, because these helicopters aren't really suitable for kosmiks.

And that REALLY gets me, becuase I many of my helis are Jeti /jlog , and the telemetry put out by kontronic ESCs saves me money in telemetry sensors, and simplifies telemetry wiring significantly

So overall... The pro is a mixed bag

My prediction, jive and helijive will be discontinued, and we'll see a jive pro 160 coming out, that like the current jive pros, will not handle the power that a kosmic 160 can handle, so not to cannabalize kozmik (very high amp draw) sales.

[Vinger]

HJ and PJ already discontinued, nowhere in stock and removed from K's website!

Will be asking for a refund of my JPro and get the new Scorpion ESC as that is smaller and lighter than a Kosmik. Hopefully Kontronik will entertain this.

Sad to see the end of telemetry yes, but JLog supports Hobbywing now, so maybe another avenue to explore.