flight stabilization

[Wrongway Feldman]

Originally Posted by Bri

WW,

Welcome to HeliFreak and more specifically the "Flight Stabilization" forum. You will come to find out that there are some great guys on here that will be more than willing to help you out. Lots of fun here in our little area of the Freak.

You may want to take a look at the Skookum 720 in regards to FBL and FSS. I am not up to speed on it but from what I have read, there is some FS in the 720. It is lacking, from what I understand, in the area of "bailout", but just something that you may want to research a bit.

Also, I am quite sure that nightflyr will chime in here and give you his take on FBL and FSS. He is running at least a couple birds this way and reports great success.

***EDIT*** Nightflyr responded while I was typing

Hello Bri:

And thank you for your kind welcome. I like this forum already. And you clearly know your fellow contributers well.

I will poke around on the Skookum threads as you suggested, and learn more. Take care.

WW

[Wrongway Feldman]

Well, I have been doing my homework. The thread started by nightflyr regarding the installation of both FS and FBL systems was an eye opener: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=191471. For me, the complexity of getting both systems to work together properly is daunting. I am now considering two options I feel are realistic, given my lack of experience.

One would be to buy my T-Rex in the FBL form, try to sell the Align 3G FBL system, and purchase and install the Skookum 720. From what I gather, this would give me the best of both worlds, with one system.

The other option would be to give up on FBL for this heli, and pair the regular flybar version with CP II. Then when I am experienced enough, I can make my next heli FBL, and not need to worry about FS.

Your opinions on this choice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

WW

[pril250]

There is a so called third option which is a actually a sub of your first option but instead of the SL720 to use Helicommand Rigid.

[nightflyr]

Which ever option you decide to go with, the folks here will be more than happy to give a helping hand with the installation and setup...

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

FYI, as to combining a CPII with any FBL system, it looks far worse than it really is.
I did it just to see if stabilization could be introduced into a FBL platform.
Once you get it sorted, it is quite easy to do for most any FBL system on the market.

I was once told..." Can't never got anything done..." and I find working out side of the box can lead to some very interesting results

[Wrongway Feldman]

Thanks, nightflyr. I plan to keep reading and mulling. I will post with some cogent thoughts when (if?) they arrive. Take care all.

WW

[FlyBarlesss]

If you plan on flying indoors a CPII is not the system you want....It has to be used outdoors. that is the only short coming..
It is far more tolerant to vibration than a gyro based platform, and is faster in response due to the fact it 'sees" the thermal horizon
Also it is the only system by design to have a dual action , one with flight stabilization, the second Emergency Recovery which is 2 times faster than normal.

hummm i can't those statements online anywhere ???

And when it comes to Emergency Recovery (or what ever you would like to call it) i don't care what you say the fact of the matter is when uprighting itself the limiting factor is and will always be the actual physical rate at which the heli can upright itself, all "Emergency Recovery" or "Self Leveling" units are faster than the heli's they control and not by any small amount !

trying to say something is 2x fast then something else is a ridiculous statement by anyone !

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by FlyBarlesss

hummm i can't those statements online anywhere ???

And when it comes to Emergency Recovery (or what ever you would like to call it) i don't care what you say the fact of the matter is when uprighting itself the limiting factor is and will always be the actual physical rate at which the heli can upright itself, all "Emergency Recovery" or "Self Leveling" units are faster than the heli's they control and not by any small amount !

trying to say something is 2x fast then something else is a ridiculous statement by anyone !

If you take the time to research and read the spec's, the statement concerning the normal rate of operation of the CPII compared to the rate of operation during Emergency Recovery is 2X the gain set.

If you do not believe what I stated, feel free to contact Tim Marks , President of FMA Direct or Howard Matos, Tech support concerning this.
Nothing was ever mentioned concerning the helicopter or how it is setup.

trying to say something is 2x fast then something else is a ridiculous statement by anyone ....

Really????

[FlyBarlesss]

That my bad, i thought you were comparing diff systems not diff modes on one system.

the fact of the matter is when uprighting itself the limiting factor is and will always be the actual physical rate at which the heli can upright itself, all "Emergency Recovery" or "Self Leveling" units are faster than the heli's they control and not by any small amount !

but i still stand by that statement when talking about auto uprighting of the heli by diff systems.

[kies277]

I just installed FM on my B400 and I was able to program it with my laptop running Vista. I had to download the software online, the CD software did not work though. I also just ordered CPII for my EXI 450 but it will not arrive for another day or two.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[Wrongway Feldman]

Greetings Learned Forum:

So here is what I have been mulling over lately, as it pertains to my earlier post of combining FS and FBL. Is not flight stabilization something that, for most people, serves as a beginner's aid? Something that, once the pilot is proficient, will not be acquired for subsequent helicopters, and perhaps even eventually removed from the first helicopter? If this is the case, then there is no real need to have flight stabilization and flybarless electronics live in harmony, since the time of an individual needing FS is limited.

I know it can be done, thanks to nightflyr and others, who's grasp of these complex matters is amazing. But from a practical standpoint, these two systems don't need to coexist, do they?

My new thought, which I am putting out for comment, is to think of one's first CP heli as a "sacrificial lamb". It is going to get banged and broken, FS notwithstanding, as I am a total beginner. So who cares if it is the older technology of flybar? Purchasing a flybarred heli opens up all of the FS options, with MUCH fewer complications.

Once I am done beating the tar out of my sacrificial lamb, my next heli will almost certainly be FBL. And by then, I won't need FS. So I will have all of the FBL options open as well at that time, without complications. I can even convert my first heli to FBL after the FS is no longer needed.

So these are my thoughts. I would greatly appreciate yours. Thank you very much.

WW

[jauguston]

Wrong way,

A logical well thought out plan. Unusual here at times (-:

I have two 450's and a 500 all with FM. I love them and they have helped immensely bringing my 30 year layoff from helis skills back. I am a long way from having the touch I had back then but am getting better. UPS is bringing me a new 550e today and I haven't decided to put a FM or CPII on it. I have one new of each in a drawer.

Jim

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by Wrongway Feldman

Greetings Learned Forum:

So here is what I have been mulling over lately, as it pertains to my earlier post of combining FS and FBL. Is not flight stabilization something that, for most people, serves as a beginner's aid? Something that, once the pilot is proficient, will not be acquired for subsequent helicopters, and perhaps even eventually removed from the first helicopter? If this is the case, then there is no real need to have flight stabilization and flybarless electronics live in harmony, since the time of an individual needing FS is limited.

I know it can be done, thanks to nightflyr and others, who's grasp of these complex matters is amazing. But from a practical standpoint, these two systems don't need to coexist, do they?

My new thought, which I am putting out for comment, is to think of one's first CP heli as a "sacrificial lamb". It is going to get banged and broken, FS notwithstanding, as I am a total beginner. So who cares if it is the older technology of flybar? Purchasing a flybarred heli opens up all of the FS options, with MUCH fewer complications.

Once I am done beating the tar out of my sacrificial lamb, my next heli will almost certainly be FBL. And by then, I won't need FS. So I will have all of the FBL options open as well at that time, without complications. I can even convert my first heli to FBL after the FS is no longer needed.

So these are my thoughts. I would greatly appreciate yours. Thank you very much.

WW

@ work right now ..but will get back to you on these thoughts

[R_Lefebvre]

Originally Posted by Wrongway Feldman

Greetings Learned Forum:

So here is what I have been mulling over lately, as it pertains to my earlier post of combining FS and FBL. Is not flight stabilization something that, for most people, serves as a beginner's aid? Something that, once the pilot is proficient, will not be acquired for subsequent helicopters, and perhaps even eventually removed from the first helicopter? If this is the case, then there is no real need to have flight stabilization and flybarless electronics live in harmony, since the time of an individual needing FS is limited.

I know it can be done, thanks to nightflyr and others, who's grasp of these complex matters is amazing. But from a practical standpoint, these two systems don't need to coexist, do they?

My new thought, which I am putting out for comment, is to think of one's first CP heli as a "sacrificial lamb". It is going to get banged and broken, FS notwithstanding, as I am a total beginner. So who cares if it is the older technology of flybar? Purchasing a flybarred heli opens up all of the FS options, with MUCH fewer complications.

Once I am done beating the tar out of my sacrificial lamb, my next heli will almost certainly be FBL. And by then, I won't need FS. So I will have all of the FBL options open as well at that time, without complications. I can even convert my first heli to FBL after the FS is no longer needed.

So these are my thoughts. I would greatly appreciate yours. Thank you very much.

WW

I think that is a generally well thought out plan, except for a few things, at least as it pertains to my plans:

I believe I will retain the FM even after I don't need it, as I intend to use the heli as a camera ship. I think that FS will help to get nice stable video. Also, it will help flying the heli if loss of orientation occurs, as well as stabilizing the heli if it is flying high directly overhead, where orientation is much more difficult to see.

Finally, I think it will be beneficial from a failsafe standpoint. With the FrSky reciever, it should be easy enough to have a failsafe setpoint with the FS engaged, holding a hover. So if radio reception is lost, even if the FM is turned off at the time, the failsafe will turn the FS back on and center the sticks. Hopefully the heli would remain airborne long enough until the radio problem can be fixed.

[Wrongway Feldman]

@ work right now ..but will get back to you on these thoughts

Waaaaaaiiiiiiiitttting...


jauguston:

Have you made your decision yet between FM or CPII for your new 550? Are there factors you consider, or do you flip a coin and be done with it?

R_Lefebvre:

Good points on the continued utility of FS. Are you using your FS systems on flybarred helis, or were you able to get the best of both worlds and get your FS systems to work with FBL? And if so, which FBL systems are you using.

Thanks for your replies.

WW

[nightflyr]

Sorry for the delay,
I agree that a inexpensive clone to start with, try to keep crash cost down by staying with plastic, AVOID the BLING trap.

Once you get the basics and you feel comfortable, then the smart thing is to move on to a higher quality machine, in order to hone your skills

[Wrongway Feldman]

I was only teasing. I just stumbled up this thread: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...t=compare+CPII

I good comparison of Flymentor to CPII thread, I guess that is were I am going next. Look out!

WW

[jauguston]

Wrong way,

I am going to take the Quark, Flymentor and receiver (Aurora 9 seven channel receiver) out of the one of two 450,s that I don't like how it flies. It will get the Jet Ranger 206 body that I got from Facu. Beautiful workmanship!

As I poster somewhere else it will probably take me a long time to get the 450 into the 206 and who knows by then we may have warp drive and mind control for our toys(-:

Jim

[R_Lefebvre]

Originally Posted by Wrongway Feldman

R_Lefebvre:

Good points on the continued utility of FS. Are you using your FS systems on flybarred helis, or were you able to get the best of both worlds and get your FS systems to work with FBL? And if so, which FBL systems are you using.

Actually, I don't have anything in the air right now. I'm a newbie. Well, I've flown airplanes a lot. But new to helis. I have FM going on an HK600GT with a flybar.

[tommcg46]

Hi all again,well i finally made up my mind and bought both,so when they get here i'llbe back to pester the chit out of everyone particularly Ivor and Nightflyr,thank's to all for your valuable input. Tom

[nightflyr]

No worries..
When your ready ask away