Issues with my HoneyBee

[Wibbles]

I am really getting to my last tether with this helicopter, I have never since day one been able to even hover the damn thing, I should have probably sent it back on the day but I put it down to being new to the hobby.

I am getting extreme vibration (tail jumping up and down) when at a high rpm and a horrible clicking sound which I can't locate.

All I want to do is fly this thing and the more I try the more issues I stumble into.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zn3q6O2ofs[/ame]

That is the current state of the heli.

HELP!

[Birdkiller]

Wibbles,

First of all dont give up!
I promise you 95% of the guys on here have been in the same position.... I know I have more than once, I have almost smashed mine against the wall many times! So just relax and lets figure this thing out.

First of all, you seem to be focused on the Wibble...I mean...Wobble.....sorry.. of the main gear. I dont think that has anything to do with any of your problems, call that normal for now.

Give some info on whats going on with your swash plate, why is your elevator servo at the max? Did you have the right stick pulled back while making the video.

a few more questions, have you followed the 'sticky' instructions on how to properly setup your new Honey Bee? Swash plate leveling, Heli Balance, main blade balance, fly bar balance, tracking of both, gyro setup.. Have you done any of that??

Reply to all that and we can go from there.

[Wibbles]

Originally Posted by Birdkiller

Wibbles,

First of all dont give up!
I promise you 95% of the guys on here have been in the same position.... I know I have more than once, I have almost smashed mine against the wall many times! So just relax and lets figure this thing out.

First of all, you seem to be focused on the Wibble...I mean...Wobble.....sorry.. of the main gear. I dont think that has anything to do with any of your problems, call that normal for now.

Give some info on whats going on with your swash plate, why is your elevator servo at the max? Did you have the right stick pulled back while making the video.

a few more questions, have you followed the 'sticky' instructions on how to properly setup your new Honey Bee? Swash plate leveling, Heli Balance, main blade balance, fly bar balance, tracking of both, gyro setup.. Have you done any of that??

Reply to all that and we can go from there.

Glad I'm not the only one that has been dicing up the wall option.

I own a Raptor 30v2 and had very minor problems setting that up (stock exhaust sucked.. Well auctally it didn't that's why it went.).

I didn't have the controller in my hand at the time of the video so no the right stick is centred. I should probably explain my issues with it at the moment.

The vibration is pretty epic (guessing by that sound / movement in the video) and the tail is spinning incredible amounts to the right(?) the opposite direction to the torque produced by the main rotor (sorry not to clued up about anything heli's apart from being ok at flying ones that WORK), in all honesty this issue is probably going to be fixed when I receive the new tail motor in a couple of days, the latest one burnt out - makes me appreciate my nitro a bit more I guess. I didn't get a chance to play with the dials on the 4in1 before the motor went.

I haven't followed the sticky in all honesty, this is my first post on the forums and I am still scouring through them (I normally post on UK boards but there are only a couple of medium sized communities).

Things that are ok from what you have mentioned:

Tracking is OK.
Flybar is bent (replacement incoming).

Cheers for the response.

[Wibbles]

I have a reply queued, I really hate forum moderation

I have added another video which might be a little clearer, the gyros are both in mid position as far as I can tell?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptLxrZpyCBQ[/ame]

[Birdkiller]

Ok....the whole Raptor thing has me confused...

You mentioned you are new to the hobby.........but you have a nitro Raptor setting there that you said you had no problems setting up.

Just out of curiosity what did you do to set it up,,, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your setup experience as well as flying experience.

Can you fly the Raptor confidently?

I think your clicking noise was coming from your head, since your swash was so far out of alignment or level, your elevator servo was pushing it to it's max sort of binding things.

It looked like you improved the swash a little bit between videos, the second video your swash looked better. But not good, you need to adjust your servo arm links ( with your TX on, servos at at center). Up or down until your swash plate is perfectly parallel to your main gear.

The amount that your swash plate was off level would make it impossible
for any beginner to even lift off. So start with that get it really good and level and post another video to see what's happening after that.

Don't worry man...we get this thing flying in no time!!

[Wibbles]

Originally Posted by Birdkiller

Ok....the whole Raptor thing has me confused...

You mentioned you are new to the hobby.........but you have a nitro Raptor setting there that you said you had no problems setting up.

Just out of curiosity what did you do to set it up,,, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your setup experience as well as flying experience.

Can you fly the Raptor confidently?

I think your clicking noise was coming from your head, since your swash was so far out of alignment or level, your elevator servo was pushing it to it's max sort of binding things.

It looked like you improved the swash a little bit between videos, the second video your swash looked better. But not good, you need to adjust your servo arm links ( with your TX on, servos at at center). Up or down until your swash plate is perfectly parallel to your main gear.

The amount that your swash plate was off level would make it impossible
for any beginner to even lift off. So start with that get it really good and level and post another video to see what's happening after that.

Don't worry man...we get this thing flying in no time!!

Like I said previously in my posts, I don't have a problem flying the things when they work but I am pretty piss poor at troubleshooting any problems, the nitro Raptor only had a single problem which was the exhaust which was easy to fix, it came RTF.

So to sum up, setup experience - 1/10, flying experience - 4/10.

I've had a look over the videos and I will take another crack at the heli after I get the parts through, I think I can fix the tail issue relatively easily although the vibration issue is going to be a bitch if these parts don't help.

I may be blind but I can't seem to find the gyro setup instructions? Any chance of a link?

[HELIHANKSTER]

The wobble in the main gear looks normal be me, even with a new gear there’s always a little wobble. To me it sounds like the main gear has a few damage teeth (flat spot), this usually happens in a hard nose in crash. Give the main gear a good look over to see if any of the teeth are flatten or missing. If so, replacing the gear will solve the noise issue. Also in most cases when the crash/impact is hard enough to damage the main gear the main shaft usually bends as well. The main shaft might look straight to the naked eye, but if it’s bent slightly it will cause vibration.

As Birdkiller said, having the swash as unleveled as it looks in the video will make it nearly impossibly to take off or fly. I will definitely suggest taking a look at how to setup your bee correctly and how to setup proper tail proportion in the sticky section. The Honey Bee is a great little trainer helicopter, but the key to a happy experience with it is having it setup as well as it can be before trying to fly it.

Gyro and proportional pot setup
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=188133

[Luke Warmwater]

Just to echo what the previous guys have said....setup is the key.

In fact, in this hobby, setup is EVERYTHING. If your Raptor came RTF, that will almost certainly NOT mean that it is ready to fly. RTF means that you have all the equipment you need and there is no assembly. Helis ALWAYS require setting up....and will continue to do so throughout their life.

I know as a newcomer to the hobby, the first thing you want to do is fly.....and the last thing you want to do is spend time learning about setup (there IS a lot to learn), then doing it, then checking it.....and eventually, flying. But really, it is not just very highly recommend, it is highly necessary in order to not just make things fly properly, but to stay safe. Helis are dangerous!

You may have been lucky enough that your Raptor was ok to get airborne...but if it hasn't been setup, there is a high chance that screws have not been thread-locked in and WILL come loose. To give you an idea, a rotor blade weighing few grams when staionary, can exert forces of over 30kgs on the small little feathering shaft nut. It spins at 1800rpm or more!

Unfortunately, being an rc pilot involves being both a pilot and a mechanic. Even more unfortunately, you really must master the mechanical side first. That's the bad news. the good news is that once mastered, it very quickly becomes second nature. you will be amazed at how quickly you can learn and apply that knowledge. The even better news is that will make you a far better pilot as you will gain a great understanding of how and why your heli works and flies as it does. Troubleshooting suddenly becomes a lot easier.

You aren't on your own. Any setup help you need, loads of folks on this forum will help out. The principles are the same for most helis, so you will be able to get some help with the Raptor here as well!

Lastly, remember, no question is a silly question. We weren't born knowing about helis; we have all had to find out like you did.....so if you can't remember how many blades your heli is meant to have....ASK!

[Viet-Lama]

+1

[toonttm]

Yes to setup, I have learned before every flight to check swash, servos etc...a general look over, then go fly and I don't have the trouble i used to

[rawfuls]

Not sure if you got the issues in the first video worked out yet, but I'll throw out some ideas, for what it's worth.

The clicking sound, sounds like the maingear is hitting something, or the main gear has stripped, and is causing that click (probably the answer)

Test the motor (pull it out, run it alone, if it clicks, bingo).

While the motor is already out, free-hand spin the main gear, if it's still there, see if you can hear where the click is coming from, exactly.

The tail wobbles is probably caused by the main gear (warped, or it just hitting something).

I noticed you have something attached to the skids, training gear?

Training gear is usually the prime suspect of vibrations..

The main gear 'wobbling' is definitely normal, gear is probably warped, as it was molded in the production status, nothing is perfect!

[Skyranger]

My dad flew a 747 and allways did a walkaround before getting in the cockpit, gotta do it on anything that flys. I do a walkaround every morning before getting in my truck. Never know, low tire, makes me feel safe, it's habit. one nite I put my tailgate down to sit on and after a few beers got up and forgot to close it. If I had not caught that, all my tools would have slid out of my bed, big money and bad for anyone behind me. It's all in the little things.

[Luke Warmwater]

Originally Posted by rawfuls

I noticed you have something attached to the skids, training gear?

Training gear is usually the prime suspect of vibrations..

Mmmmm.....training gear will show up vibes, but not really cause them. Training gear doesn't move, and so can't cause vibes. What it will do is show up a vibration that is already there but not so visible. It's telling you that you have a problem that you wouldn't be aware of if you took the training gear off.

A very small degree of almost unnoticeable vibration is normal and has to be acceptable as you can't make it all perfect without high precision instruments. But we should be aware, vibration is a bad thing!

Vibration occurs because something is spinning out of balance. It causes wear and degrades the flight characteristics....you shouldn't ignore it.

The most common cause is unbalanced blades, followed by a bent main shaft. As mentioned, even a bend invisible to the eye can do this. You need to roll the shaft on a perfectly flat surface (ceramic oven hob etc) to check this. After that check the blades are tracking properly; untracked blades will vibrate. Next in the list would be slop in the head or the head out of balance.

An out of round main gear would also do this. It is common and as stated, nothing is perfect...but you shouldn't really accept it. It will always cause a vibration, will wear and eventually you risk stripping the loosest part against the pinion. It will also strain your motor.

[Wibbles]

Ok so a quick update, got it flying today and it looks pretty sweet - I am finding it hard to get the blades to track properly I am using SuperBlades XP now which seem to have balanced things up.

The day went pretty well apart from clipping a tree but no damage was done as far as I can tell (still flies fine).

I'll crack on with trying to fix the blade tracking but things are looking pretty good.

My only issue is that it seems to not be too balanced in the air, I am guessing that could be to do with the tracking?

[Birdkiller]

Your.making progress, Awesome!!!

There is no real science to adjusting blade tracking on a Bee, you literially have to decide which blade is producing more or less lift and adjust acordingly.

The way I decide the difference is, i mark the end of ONE blade with a red marker, then while holding the heli up eye level, spool it up to at least half throttle. With having one blade edge red and the other white you will very easily be able to tell which is high and which is low. I typically adjust the higher blade.
The way to adjust is to hold the blade tight just in front of the blade grip with one hand, and with the other grab the blade edge and twist down. You are manually adjusting the blade pitch to be a lesser angle.
Spool it up again take a look, and keep adjusting this way until they are tracking on the same plane.
One you do it a few times youll get the hang of it and it will become very simple for you to do.

Balance is a whole different thing, you typically adjust the balance by battery placement. To check balance turn the flybar 90degrees to the heli so your blades are in line with the tail and nose. Place your fingers or better yet pencils under the fly bar close to the head, lift the helicopter while.watching the skids and the tail fin. They should rise evenly, if they dont, move your battery forward or backward to achieve proper ballance.

You are on your way brother!!! Keep it up and youll be a BEE pro!

[Viet-Lama]

On your 1st vid your main gear is very true. Mine wibbles much more then yours so your perfectly fine there.

You mentioned the balance, check your COG by "hooking" your fingers on the flybar (one finger on each side of the rotor head) The tail boom should bee perfectly level or you will have to re-configure the lipo / 4in1 to balance the heli.

Your blade tracking is most likely off because you need a head stiffner. Even if your blade tracking was fine the bee still needs a stiffy. Make your own or better yet, buy one from BK.

Congrats on not giving up and getting her in the air!

[rawfuls]

Hmm, weird that your Superblades aren't tracking.

Mine were tracked & balanced right out of the package...

[Birdkiller]

Originally Posted by rawfuls

Hmm, weird that your Superblades aren't tracking.

Mine were tracked & balanced right out of the package...

All my super blades have been well balanced out of the package but after the first crash required tracking adjustments, I check my tracking after each and every little spill or tobble over.

[Birdkiller]

Originally Posted by Viet-Lama

On your 1st vid your main gear is very true. Mine wibbles much more then yours so your perfectly fine there.

You mentioned the balance, check your COG by "hooking" your fingers on the flybar (one finger on each side of the rotor head) The tail boom should bee perfectly level or you will have to re-configure the lipo / 4in1 to balance the heli.

Your blade tracking is most likely off because you need a head stiffner. Even if your blade tracking was fine the bee still needs a stiffy. Make your own or better yet, buy one from BK.

I love your sense of humor!!!! we think a like...

And YES Congrats on not giving up and getting her in the air!

Check out Heli Hanksters review on my aluminum head Stiffiner
Thanks for the recommendation VL! :