Motor will not start without "kick start"

[LoveToFly1]

hey guys, this is my first YGE ESC ever, so I need some help here. I have run into this issue with a few castles along the way, but only twice.

my setup is as follows:
YGE 120HV
Scorpion 4025 1100kv motor
BD3SX FBL Unit

I went through the setup exactly as shown in the videos and everything went perfectly. endpoints were easy to find, everything was fine. my settings are below.

timing - 6 degrees (scorpion recommended 5)
brake - off
cut off type - soft, lipo, 2.4-3.1
cells - 6
freew. - gov store
gov. p-gain - .9
gov I-gain - .02
startup speed - heli middle
pwm-frequency - 8khz (recommended from scorpion)
startup power - auto 1-32%

ok, so the main rotor will not spin until I literally spin it by hand before I let off of TH. I have tried auto 1-32%, an 2%, 4%, 8%, 16%, and 32% individually. none of them help at all. I am using the programming card with my bec voltage set at 5V, and then turning the bec back up to my 8.5V after the setup.

can someone please point me in the correct direction? this motor worked and started perfectly fine with the castle 120 just last week.

oh, and she flys great once she is spooled up!

[LoveToFly1]

anyone??? this is killing me guys....

this morning on the way in to work I stopped to fly. I still had the start power set on 32%, I couldn't even get it to spool up by spinning the head with my hands like that.

I had to drive all the way back home and get my plugs and then set the start power to Auto, then I could get it to start with my assistance spinning the head first.

[KRAR]

Go back to basics..
soldering the leads is ok
everything moves freely
As a Side note from my understanding YGE does not recommend using more than 4% power on high voltage setups...

I just posted how to calibrate end points.. try that again maybe...
also are you looping the gov. back to the demon.... aka the yellow wire back to the demon??
if so I would try to setup heli without that and try that...

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by KRAR

Go back to basics..
soldering the leads is ok
everything moves freely
As a Side note from my understanding YGE does not recommend using more than 4% power on high voltage setups...

I just posted how to calibrate end points.. try that again maybe...
also are you looping the gov. back to the demon.... aka the yellow wire back to the demon??
if so I would try to setup heli without that and try that...

soldering is good, I just did it the other night. everything is free, I can spin the head by hand and then let TH off and it will spool up....it acts like the start power will not go high enough. this is a 6 cell setup, so not HV.

I don't understand what you mean about the yellow wire? I just have the one plug from the YGE into the demon throttle port. the other plug is the plug for the prog card.

[LoveToFly1]

thank you for the response by the way. please stick around and help me figure this out. I am about to the point of pulling this thing and throwing it away. I don't even want to pass this thing along to someone else at this point.....

but I know the soldering is good. the motor just wont kick over on its own...it just wont. it will jump jump jump, then stop and beeb beeb beeb. I think it does 6 beeps, meaning start failure....

[KRAR]

HV setups.. high voltage on the servos... What can happen is that the servos start to draw sooo much power that the motor can't start becuase the BEC and motor are drawing too much at the same time....
I would try retraining the esc without gov. mode...

These are the exact steps I took.... Mr. Mels videos DID NOT WORK for me for some reason...
In Mr. Mel's I know he says to use the stick method, all that did for me was put the thing into programming mode...
Here are the steps I took, using programming card iii, ar7200, DX8, Quantum 4120
CAUTION : remove the blades!!!

1) make sure everything is powered down
2) plug in throttle cable from the esc into the programming card.
3) Use the cable provided to go from the throttle slot in the receiver to the rx port on the programming card... (Note: I tried doing this Mr. Mel's way with a rx pack and it did not work)
4) power on tx and select appropriate model (make sure throttle curve is linear 0, 25, 50, 75 100....)
5) now plug in battery to the esc (if you are doing gov store use a battery at 4.0V per cell)
6) you should see the leds on the rows and columns light up sequentially, if it does not repeat process 1 - 6.... If the lights do not do a little dance I worry that the esc and prog card are not communicating correctly
7) now on the programming card on the second page there's a section called special functions. go to that row.. to get to the second page you hold the two buttons that are on the left of the programming card for 2 seconds and release.
8) make sure throttle is lowest position in remote (
9) Select stop on the programming card.
10) move throttle stick to full
11) select full throttle(or something similiar)
12) unplug battery from esc
13) undo all the connections and return all wiring to how it was before.. do not touch the throttle curve...
14) plug battery back into esc and go straight to full throttle as this teaches the esc what full throttle is.... PLEASE BE CAREFUL...
15) if you hear/see the blip in motor you are set and done...

[KRAR]

Also on my esc I had two wires from the esc.... one was a throttle wire... the other was split.... the red/black was a secondary backup to power the electronics, and the yellow was on it's own... I DO NOT plug in the yellow wire

[jukeheli]

maybe you could try 18 degrees timing.yge18-30 timing for outrunners

[LoveToFly1]

thanks for the replies guys. I did try 18 degrees timing, it didn't help.

about the start power and HV setups, I used auto 1-32%, that didn't work. I used 2%, that didn't work. I used 4%, that didn't work. I used 8%, that didn't work. I used 16%, that didn't work. I used 32%, that didn't work.

I re-installed my castle, and it worked perfectly. this YGE is way too complicated to use to have absolutely no directions at all....I am just going to stick with castle. there is something to be said about simplicity......

[gt48]

LoveToFly1: Sorry the yge is being such a pain for you. I finally got mine spooling up properly by setting startup power to auto 1-32. Don't know why it works for me but not for you. Mind you, mine is working right now only disengaged from the motor belt, I don't know what it will do once I put it back together. I agree it shouldn't be so complicated. I know you've put the castle back in but can I ask did you calibrate the throttle with sticks? If so, right at the point where the yge learns low throttle and arms does the motor spool up ok?

[KevinB]

Just fyi, I saw the same issue on my 690 yesterday. It works perfectly with both of it's packs (12s). But, when I tried a low speed 6s flight yesterday, my start up did the same thing. I have been using the 'auto' start power all along.

I did have a high spot on the main gear so I loosened off my gear mesh just a hair. If that doesn't help, I'll try adjusting the spool up speed in the vbar gov. or perhaps the low throttle endpoint. I purposely calibrated my YGE low throttle at 90% on the radio to make a softer start. Perhaps I need to bump that up to 95%??

I'll try a few things today and let you know if I found a solution.

KevinB

[KRAR]

Finally I ran into the same problem today...
Here is what happened...
the motor would turn with throttle but after awhile the esc would just beep 6 times.....
Here is the fix I used....
Reprogram esc......
CAUTION REMOVE BLADES
1) power on transmitter
2) power electronics separately via a rx pack into the 'brain' or something....
3) wait for everything to initialize if you have too.. I wait 30 seconds just because
4) move throttle to FULL STICK
5) Plugin esc.... This puts the esc into a manual programming mode(should hear like 10 beeps)...
6) put the throttle to minimum
7) once you hear three continous beeps in a row go back to full throttle and wait for 2 more beeps
8) move throttle back to minimum !!!!!ESC IS NOW ARMED and in gov store mode!!!!
9) Now if you want gov store mode continue... if not jump down to part b...
10)power everything off
11) use a battery that you would fly with at 4.0 Volts for the esc and turn on remote followed by the esc
12) turn throttle to 100% and this teaches the esc how fast it can drive the motor.....

Note: gov mode overrides any throttle curves and on the goblin 500 I find that it is a little to much headspeed and have not learnt yet how to adjust that... I will be using throttle curves.


part b)
1)Power everything Off
2) Now we attach the programming card to the esc.. throttle port on the rx to the programming card...
3) make sure remote is powered on
4) On the programming card go to the second page by holding the two button on the left for two seconds.... and TURN GOV MODE OFF
5) power esc down, followed by remote
6) replace everything to the way it was
7) Should be good to go

[KevinB]

To fix it for me, I knew my tail belt was a shade tight. Once I adjusted that, it reduced the startup friction enough that it now starts fine with 12s or 6s.

KevinB

[KRAR]

good to know...
so many little things that can go wrong...

[Bob O]

The only thing I like about my YGE 90LV is the active freewheeling and the BEC.

Sent via phone

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by gt48

LoveToFly1: Sorry the yge is being such a pain for you. I finally got mine spooling up properly by setting startup power to auto 1-32. Don't know why it works for me but not for you. Mind you, mine is working right now only disengaged from the motor belt, I don't know what it will do once I put it back together. I agree it shouldn't be so complicated. I know you've put the castle back in but can I ask did you calibrate the throttle with sticks? If so, right at the point where the yge learns low throttle and arms does the motor spool up ok?

I tried to calibrate them, but man, there is no real good info on how to do it. no offense to anyone at all, but I don't just try things people tell me to...lol....I like to follow instructions from the manufacturer of the item.

my motor spooled up perfectly fine with the blades off, it was the added weight of the blades that stalled it out. the only time it wouldn't spool up is when I had the blades on. other than that it spooled up perfectly. I also never heard an audible change in the motor when trying to program gov store. the "kick" people talk about....I never heard that....I just let it say spooled up for 10 sec or so and when I heard constant rpm, I spooled it down. in the videos it happened quickly, so I just assumed it was right....

the yge is on the shelf though, so if I want to goof with it some other time, I will.

I saw this esc work before I bought it from my buddy...this makes no sense. I even turned gov off and tried to run it on curves, still wouldn't spool up. and with his, it would kick the tail hard on spool up.

my trusty castle didn't let me down this morning, fired right up and beat the piss out of the E5! good times poor helicopter....lol!!!

[LoveToFly1]

thank you to all who replied....please keep the conversation going too....it will help someone one day who has this same issue. possibly me when I decide to give the yge another try....

[MyRCode]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

thank you to all who replied....please keep the conversation going too....it will help someone one day who has this same issue. possibly me when I decide to give the yge another try....

That's odd...We're running almost identical setups on the E5. I've had the YGE on for almost 50 flights or so...I'll double check my settings for you when I'm at the field on Wed.

[LoveToFly1]

sounds good. thanks. I am actually returning the yge to helidirect today. I just got off the phone with them. its still under warranty, and they seem to think there is an issue with it....I have trouble shot every possible issue they could tell me to. so they are replacing it.

[MyRCode]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

sounds good. thanks. I am actually returning the yge to helidirect today. I just got off the phone with them. its still under warranty, and they seem to think there is an issue with it....I have trouble shot every possible issue they could tell me to. so they are replacing it.

That sounds good. I've been following your thread on here for a while. You're settings look correct from what I can remember off the top of my head and I was starting to lean towards something wrong with your ESC too. I had mine setup out of the box with Gov. store in 10 minutes.