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Engines and Mufflers Having problems or need advice on Engines or Mufflers? |
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04-18-2004, 06:59 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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OS50SX mid range too rich
I have an OS50SX in my Raptor 50V2.
I'm having trouble getting the mixture just right. I've read a lot of posts where people say you have to run the high needle too rich to make up for a lean mid range. I seem to be having the opposite problem. My main needle is at 1 turn open. My idle mixture is cranked almost totally closed (lean) and my idle is a bit lean for my tastes. However as I pull into a hover my mixture is way too rich, the engine stumbles and spits. I've tried CoolPower 15% heli as well as CoolPower 30%. It's a bit better with the 30%, but still too rich in the mid range. I'm using an OS #8 plug. I'm hesitant to try to make my main needle leaner as the engine is running well and not over heating, but it's also already at 1 turn open which seems getting close to 'too lean' to me, or does this engine normally run about 1 turn or smaller? Has anyone else seen this issue? Please don't tell me to modify my carb with the cateye mod as that is supposed to richen the mid range even more. I also don't want to spend $120 for a 60B carb. But if someone wants to sell me one cheap, I'll consider it. Ideas please? OS engines should be able to be tuned without this much problem. Thanks!
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
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04-18-2004, 08:08 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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Rich,
If you bought this engine used, I would strongly suspect that the "cat's eye" modification has already been done to the carb. Your engine shows all the symptoms of what happens when the modification is overdone. I slightly overdid the modification to my OS 50 so I have to have the idle adjustment all the way closed and it's still idles a little rich. If this is not the case, are you sure your glow plug is ok and that you are using a quality plug such as an OS #8 or an Enya #3? Bob
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Samuel Adams field rep Buffalo Wings field rep Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. Churchill |
04-18-2004, 08:16 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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Hi Bob,
This engine was brand new. I broke it in myself. I'm using an OS #8. Perhaps I'll try another one today.
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
04-18-2004, 11:35 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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mine did the same with the os #8 i put in a enya #3 no more prob it quit spiting instantly. also 1 turn on the main is normal. and you will probably riching the bottom when you go to a enya #3 most likely. i hope this helps.
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let the heli bashing begin! i have my club! preditor 60/70 gohbee V blades, paddels, & tails Magnum fuel JR 500t & futaba 401 8311's & 8700 with throttle jockey |
04-19-2004, 06:36 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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Hi Learjet,
Thanks for the info. I'll try an Enya #3 as soon as I can get some. What is your normal high speed needle, is it right at 1 turn or a bit more open or closed than that. What fuel are you using? It seems I'm right at 1 turn now and have a nice cool running engine. I may be able to go leaner, but I have plenty of power now. Is everyone running Enya #3's?
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
04-19-2004, 10:04 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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Mine is doing the exact same thing as Rich's. The carb is totally stock and I'm using an Enya #3 plug on Magnum 30%. It'll idle all day and pulls like a Hemi in a climb and is smooth as glass. But it stumbles when going from idle to mid-range. Often it will just die.
Clintsone helped me tune it on Saturday (thanks, dude ) and it is a lot better. But it still is acting up. I changed to a new plug and it helped a little. My thinking is that it's too rich on the low end and loading up when I advance the throttle. So I leaned the low speed a little at a time. It will get better, then start to get worse. Richening the low speed only makes it worse. I have a 60B carb in my parts bin. Should I use it? I'm very happy with the performance if this engine in every other respect and don't really want to start making drastic changes if my only problem is my own inability to tune the thing. |
04-19-2004, 10:36 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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Ditto for me, same problem. I have leaned the idle to the point that it's
"popping" ,you know, the "lean" sound. It still does it. Does the "cat eye" mod solve this ? |
04-19-2004, 11:09 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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I believe my idle was too lean already. Here is why:
If I pinch the fuel line with the engine at idle, the engine dies right away. This is a sign of an almost too lean an idle. If the idle mixture was right, the engine should speed up a bit before it dies. Normally a hesitation on accelleration is a an indication of too lean an idle (my engine seems to go rich when I try to accellerate). I also think my idle is too lean as it won't go to idle right away when I hit the hold switch, it seems to 'hang' which is another indication of a lean idle. My main needle is set to about 1 turn. I may be able to go smaller than 1 turn, but I have good climb at full power now, I don't think I should push it, but I could if I had too.. maybe 7/8 turn open would be better, but I don't want to cook my engine from these settings. I've tried my 'idle' mixture adjust from the mid point to almost totally closed. Since Bimmer says he's using an Enya #3 plug and having the same problem, this must not be the issue. Send me that 60B carb, I'll be glad to test it. Is it in good shape? if so I'll consider trading it for an LMH-100 or something else that I may have in my workshop. This is so strange to me as it seems that everyone else was having a mid range too lean issue. I wonder if OS made a change in the carb and didn't tell us?
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
04-19-2004, 11:30 AM | #9 (permalink) |
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no the cat eye doesn't. it is for if your coming out of transition and the motor is going lean in the center. i am 1 or 2 clicks below 1 turn but that is for my conditions. i find all the 0s 50 around here from kansas city kansas out to salina and my friends in grand island nebraska all are 1 turn and 1 or 2 clicks leaner than that. some right at 1 turn. i run magnum 12% and the others some magnum and some wild cat 15%. i think you should be a little richer than my 12%. you have to remember the high end only adjusts the top 75% of your throttle. but i think if you change to the enya #3 you will be allot closer on your carb settings. and i remember reading some where that jason krause. (and most of the big dogs) run a little rich on the low and 1 click to the lean on the top.(but this is for big dogs.)the big dogs do this because of cooling and don't spend allot of time full boar. i don't run mine lean on the top. an i do run it rich on the low end. if you have a 60 b carb i would use it there are rave reports on the os 50 with 60 b carb. after adjusting the oreginal carb it will work fine. also i would pull off the nipple on the carb and flush it with some fuel. just incase of dirt. i hope this helps.also mine started to load up when my rear baring was bad here 2 weeks ago. when i would go and try to get in a hover from the ground it would die. and no amount of carb tweaking would fix it new plug nothing. i hope this isn't your prob bimmerm3 hope it is just your carb settings. jhodges try the enya #3 it will help you in your case. my engine was new when i had switched to the enya and the prob disapeard untill my bearing prob which was 4 cases of fuel later. sorry for the sp mistakes but my 8 mouth old daughter wont let me type anymore.
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let the heli bashing begin! i have my club! preditor 60/70 gohbee V blades, paddels, & tails Magnum fuel JR 500t & futaba 401 8311's & 8700 with throttle jockey |
04-19-2004, 12:00 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Hi Learjet,
Thanks for the reply.. we will try all. I also edited my previous post as I said everyone is having the midrange too rich when I meant mid range too lean! I've tried both 15% and 30% CoolPower, I may try something in the middle after I get this worked out. I thought I had plenty of power at 15%, but I was hoping that the 30% might be different. My engine is just about broken in. I have about 3 gallons through it now. Knowing that everyone is around (or two clicks leaner) helps me to know that I'm in the correct range. I've already checked the fuel nipple for problems. My next step is to remove the carb and completely dissassemble it looking for a problem.
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
04-24-2004, 09:07 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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FWIW: My problem really got bad when I installed a new MPIIQ. It got the point where I was spending more time tuning than flying. :x :x
I switched to 20% Magnum (from 30% Magnum). I had to slightly richen the low speed needle and leaned the high speed needle to about 1.25 turns out. The stumbling is gone now and the transition is smooth! So, if your having some trouble still, try some 20% fuel and see what happens. It worked for me. I flew 3 tanks and didn't have to touch the needle again and the engine never died! |
04-25-2004, 07:50 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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Hi Rob,
I tried 30% fuel, the problem is still there. I started to lean the main needle a bit more (a click or two leaner than 1 turn) and the problem is better though. Perhaps I'm just being too conservative in my main needle settings which I would prefer to do, but the mid range won't let me. I had another theory that perhaps the R50V2 stock muffler is creating a different load on this engine causing the richer mid-range. But if you seeing the similar problem with the MP2 then that's not the case. I would expect the tuned pipe to need a bit more fuel, so alway start new tests with a richer setting. Are you using a governer with this setup? I ordered a MP2QL also, it should arrive in a couple of days.
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
04-25-2004, 08:58 AM | #13 (permalink) |
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Rich,
Try adjusting the low speed needle - your high speed setting sounds just about right. I opened the low speed until I knew for sure that it was too rich (quickly advance the throttle and it would die) and then closed it 1/8 turn at a time until the transition was very crisp. Then I backed off slightly (maybe 1/16) turn. This combined with switching to the 20% made the difference. When you install the MPII, your setting are going to change for sure. You'll probably have to richen it a bit. One thing I discovered is that I am running the engine leaner on the 20% fuel, but it sounds very happy and does not get overly hot. Yes, I use a governor, but not when tuning. It is bypassed right now until I get the tuning sorted out for sure. BTW: You ever run into Duddits up there in Derry? (You'll only get that if you've read Dreamcatcher) |
04-25-2004, 09:05 AM | #14 (permalink) |
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Thanks for the info...
Let me know how the governer is working after the tuning is done. I don't know what the reference to duddits is, I guess I haven't read Dreamcatcher.
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
04-25-2004, 06:13 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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Duddits.......too cool Love Stephen King books..........
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04-26-2004, 09:33 AM | #16 (permalink) | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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04-26-2004, 09:38 AM | #17 (permalink) |
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I was going to offer to help with your Governer, but I run Futaba, not TJ.
I'll keep an eye out for the movie and put it on the 'to rent' list
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Rich X-Cell Gas G231PUH (for sale), Raptor 50V2 OS50, Blade CX |
04-26-2004, 03:20 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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Just got a great deal on a 60B carb. Should have it on this weekend. I here this is the hot ticket for the OS .50.
Bimmer .... what's going on with the govenor ? I am about to order a TJ Pro ??? Should I wait ? |
04-26-2004, 03:44 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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I have a 60B and might try it. But it seems to be running very well now that I switched from 30% to 20% nitro. Besides, I don't want to redo all my throttle setup. ARGH!
I don't know what the deal is with the gov. It had been working great, but when I try to recalibrate it after changing my throttle setup it keeps calibrating incorrectly. I would still highly recommend the TJ Pro. I'm sure my problem is something I am doing wrong. I just haven't figured it out yet. |
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