Logo XXtreme 480 - What Setup?

[abanihani]

Correct for HeliJive only, 65% is what is needed. All other jives including the jive 100LV the optimal is 80% not 65% hence i got my numbers. Kosmik is 80% also.

[ShaneXman]

Originally Posted by abanihani

Correct for HeliJive only, 65% is what is needed. All other jives including the jive 100LV the optimal is 80% not 65% hence i got my numbers. Kosmik is 80% also.

+1...


-Shane

[mahbouni]

Originally Posted by abanihani

Correct for HeliJive only, 65% is what is needed. All other jives including the jive 100LV the optimal is 80% not 65% hence i got my numbers. Kosmik is 80% also.

Sorry I don't want to start a debate and take the thread off topic, but that's a misunderstanding due to the different wording in the Jive and HeliJive manuals.

From the Jive manual: "KONTRONIK recommends setting minimum RPM at 80% of full PRM". That's motor RPM not throttle % in your Tx. The best way to know what is 80% is to look at the PWM in JLog logs. If you have a JLog then its worth taking a look. There you will see that a throttle value of 80% is always at 100% PWM and the governor has no headroom.

From the HeliJive manaual: "KONTRONIK recommends a value of 65-70% of full throttle setting set on TX for
optimal governor control". Now it refers to throttle % in your Tx, not motor RPM.

The PWM management is the same in both HeliJive and other Jives. This was confirmed by Kontronik to their official support rep in the UK.

http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/kontro...tml#post976625

As a side note I have 2 Logo 600s, which I flew in the UK 3D Champs this year. One has a HeliJive and the other has a Jive 80HV. I have in the past swapped the ESC over without changing throttle in the Tx and there was no noticeable difference in RPM.

[abanihani]

makes sense, my understanding the numbers posted in Mr. Mel calculations are transmitter throttle percentages. I do have Jlog 2.5 in all my helis for telemetry purposes and I am getting the exact headspeed based on Tx throttle percentages as the calculator suggests. PWM of course is more important and the idea is not to hit 100% but I have not experienced logging my data to judge from that perspective. This should probably be discussed further in the Kontronik forum and sorry if I derailed the discussion about the 480 extreme.

[ShaneXman]

Originally Posted by mahbouni

Sorry I don't want to start a debate and take the thread off topic, but that's a misunderstanding due to the different wording in the Jive and HeliJive manuals.

From the Jive manual: "KONTRONIK recommends setting minimum RPM at 80% of full PRM". That's motor RPM not throttle % in your Tx. The best way to know what is 80% is to look at the PWM in JLog logs. If you have a JLog then its worth taking a look. There you will see that a throttle value of 80% is always at 100% PWM and the governor has no headroom.

From the HeliJive manaual: "KONTRONIK recommends a value of 65-70% of full throttle setting set on TX for
optimal governor control". Now it refers to throttle % in your Tx, not motor RPM.

The PWM management is the same in both HeliJive and other Jives. This was confirmed by Kontronik to their official support rep in the UK.

http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/kontro...tml#post976625

As a side note I have 2 Logo 600s, which I flew in the UK 3D Champs this year. One has a HeliJive and the other has a Jive 80HV. I have in the past swapped the ESC over without changing throttle in the Tx and there was no noticeable difference in RPM.

Originally Posted by abanihani

makes sense, my understanding the numbers posted in Mr. Mel calculations are transmitter throttle percentages. I do have Jlog 2.5 in all my helis for telemetry purposes and I am getting the exact headspeed based on Tx throttle percentages as the calculator suggests. PWM of course is more important and the idea is not to hit 100% but I have not experienced logging my data to judge from that perspective. This should probably be discussed further in the Kontronik forum and sorry if I derailed the discussion about the 480 extreme.

By ALL means guys...continue. This is certainly relevant to the 480 XXtreme and the setup options (which is what this thread was created for). Not to mention, I'm also interested because I could really use this info. LOL

Let the discussions continue. Thanks guys!


-Shane

[mahbouni]

Originally Posted by abanihani

makes sense, my understanding the numbers posted in Mr. Mel calculations are transmitter throttle percentages. I do have Jlog 2.5 in all my helis for telemetry purposes and I am getting the exact headspeed based on Tx throttle percentages as the calculator suggests. PWM of course is more important and the idea is not to hit 100% but I have not experienced logging my data to judge from that perspective. This should probably be discussed further in the Kontronik forum and sorry if I derailed the discussion about the 480 extreme.

Yes the numbers you input in Mr Mel's calculator are throttle percentages, but for Jives the manual recommends 80% of PWM. In your transmitter that's about 65% throttle.

Mr Mel's calculator allows you calculate with ATV adjustment, so 80% throttle becomes closer to 80% PWM. Essentially you are calibrating your Tx to the Jive after calibrating your Jive to your Tx. Kontronik do not recommend this but some people do it anyway.

[abanihani]

not trying to argue, but i don't calibrate anything on my transimitter, my observations is 80% throttle in my transmitter correlates exactly with Mr. Mel 80% without calibration, this is based on Jlog 2.5 data. now i am not talking about PWM here, i have not looked at that. I am just not sure why all the manuals for jives and kosmik states the 80% but Helijive manual is the only one that states 65%, it has to do with HeliJive software being differnet and includes mode 6 which helijive only has.

[DannyvG]

PWM is al that matters and it should be around 80% at the beginning of the flight. which translates to somewhere between 60 and 70% in the TX ( been a while since I had a kontronik)

[abanihani]

Originally Posted by DannyvG

PWM is al that matters and it should be around 80% at the beginning of the flight. which translates to somewhere between 60 and 70% in the TX ( been a while since I had a kontronik)

Agree, what i am saying is Mr. Mel calculator is not PWM, it is based on throttle percentage. The only way to look for proper gearing is a device like Jlog 2.5. If you put 65% on your transmitter you will not get the HS that is on this calculator. I hope i am clear here as i don't want to confuse anyone.

[mahbouni]

Here's two calculations from Mr Mel. Both are 6s 1100KV 18T pinion 153T main gear and Jive mode 4 governor. The first one has no ATV adjustment. That means the throttle ATV are at +-100% in the Tx.

Throttle 55%: 2357
Throttle 60%: 2480
Throttle 63%: 2553
Throttle 67%: 2651
Throttle 70%: 2725
Throttle 73%: 2798
Throttle 76%: 2872
Throttle 80%: 2970

The second one has ATV adjustment. The throttle endpoints are calibrated to the Jive so that the ESC arms at bottom stick and the LED on the Jive comes on at full stick. Again this is not recommended by Kontronik.

Throttle 60%: 2382
Throttle 65%: 2455
Throttle 70%: 2529
Throttle 75%: 2602
Throttle 80%: 2676
Throttle 85%: 2749
Throttle 90%: 2823
Throttle 95%: 2896

As you can see with no ATV adjustment, 80% yields even higher RPM than 95% with ATV adjustment. From Mr Mel's calculator it is clear that 80% with no ATV adjustment is close to if not past 100% PWM.

[ShaneXman]

Alright guys, for those who are trying to figure out which servos to run...

Back when the Goblin 500 first was announced, I started a similar thread that got the juices flowing for the Goblin's setup...and a member by the name of jaofos took the initiative and created a servo comparison spreadsheet. I recently approached him to see if I could get ahold of that spreadsheet so I could update it with several new and worthy servos that have come out since the Goblin 500's introduction...for consideration on the XXtreme 480. Thank you jaofos!!!

So here it is...



Hopefully this will help some with their decision making process.

*NOTE* - This spreadsheet was created by HUMANS...from information derived from the internet, so there quite possibly could be errors. If you happen to notice an error, please let me know and I will correct it ASAP. Thanks!


-Shane

[abanihani]

I have ordered these

http://www.jrpropo.co.jp/english/pro...db_flg=eng_db1

[Trader]

Ahoy ShaneXman!

That is a cool table
I would add weights too...

Thx,
Laci

[ShaneXman]

Originally Posted by Trader

Ahoy ShaneXman!

That is a cool table
I would add weights too...

Thx,
Laci

Laci,

Thanks!

I would be glad to do this, but it may take me a bit of time. If you want to help out, and compile the information...that would help a lot. If not, I can knock it out after work hopefully.

Cheers!


-Shane

[prototype3a]

FWIW, I really like the Hyperion DH-16SCD servos. I'm using them in my Logo500. Also, you can't beat the price with a stick when they're on sale.

Edit: I just noticed that your specs are for 7.4v only on the DH series. I run mine at 8.4v regulated and have for a long time now with no problems.

[ShaneXman]

The servo comparison spreadsheet has been updated to include weights thanks to Trader (Laci). Thank you Laci!


-Shane

[eltavito]

I think this impressive servo should be added to the cyclic servo list:

Futaba BLS173SV Brushless Mini Air SBus2 Hi-Volt Servo

Torque: 105.6 oz-in (7.6 kg-cm) @ 7.4V
94.5 oz-in (6.8 kg-cm) @ 6.6V
Speed: 0.10 sec/60° @ 7.4V
0.11 sec/60° @ 6.6V
Dimensions: 1.30 x 0.59 x 1.07" (33 x 15 x 27.1mm)
Weight: 0.99 oz (28 g)
Power Requirements: DC 6V to 7.4V

[Varelco]

Didn't realise futaba did a HV mini servo, is it a new release? I like the detachable servo lead

[dahld]

Detachable servo leads

Futaba and JR (probably everyone else as well if not already), are going to this (at least on their new releases).

It makes it sooo easy to R&R servos without having to mess-up a nice wiring job. This will make taking the time to do nice wiring jobs actually worth it.

(-: Dave

[snemi00]

@Dave,

I know it's still very new, but I'm interested to hear any feedback you get from Kyle on the tail with the mini vs a full size servo.
I know they've come a long way, but just wondering if the weight savings is worth it.