Brushless Nano Cpx. Post your setup and discussion thread.

[Supermartin]

So what's the run time using the stock 150mah battety? And how efficient is the bl motor compared to the stock? 30% more efficient?

[daveapplemotors]

Originally Posted by Supermartin

So what's the run time using the stock 150mah battety? And how efficient is the bl motor compared to the stock? 30% more efficient?

I tried a fairly new warmed 150mah E-Flite in my wild nano at 90% governed yesterday. No punch after about one minute.

But in my small living and dining rooms at 64% governed I get 4 minutes working it as hard as I can without inverting. I never hit LVC in 4 minutes indoors. My MSRs are for sale, now.

Dylan recommended 240mah Hyperions because they are light, have the right connector and give solid power for 4 minutes outdoors on 90%. I like them.

Efficiency from what I have read:
Brushes motor = 70-80% efficient
Brushless = 90-91% and higher

If your brushed motor was 70% and you changed to a BL at 91% then you would gain 21% efficiency and the gain would be an increase of about 30% from what you had.

[Supermartin]

Originally Posted by daveapplemotors

I tried a fairly new warmed 150mah E-Flite in my wild nano at 90% governed yesterday. No punch after about one minute.

But in my small living and dining rooms at 64% governed I get 4 minutes working it as hard as I can without inverting. I never hit LVC in 4 minutes indoors. My MSRs are for sale, now.

Dylan recommended 240mah Hyperions because they are light, have the right connector and give solid power for 4 minutes outdoors on 90%. I like them.

Efficiency from what I have read:
Brushes motor = 70-80% efficient
Brushless = 90-91% and higher

If your brushed motor was 70% and you changed to a BL at 91% then you would gain 21% efficiency and the gain would be an increase of about 30% from what you had.

Thanks a lot daveapplemotors! Recently I changed the stock fuse of my nano cpx to the one used on the nine eagle bravo, which gives it a more scale look However, the new fuse added up to 7g of more weight! I can feel that the extra weight puts more strain on the stock motor and also shortens the flight time to under 3 min (I don't do 3D anyways). Also considering that the stock motor burns out after 50-100 flights, I think I might have to go brushless.

Do you guys think that the brushless will help in my case? Also a very beginner question: what's the life expectancy of a brushless motor? Indefinitely, I imagine??

Thanks!

[tmacrc]

Looking for the ini file to flash an XP3A for a brushless tail on the Nano CPX

[soonglim]

I've tried a DBL brushless on the Nano, and I didn't find it to be any better than with just the brushless main (hp03se 16500kv). I've tried the hp02t and hp03t (with shortened Plantraco props) for the tail, but the brushless tail seem to draw too much current away from the battery for the main and produce a slight bog. With just the brushless main and stock nano tail (stock length by the way), it's much more zippy. I can even fly with the stock battery for 2m30s (mild 3d), and with the 200mah 35C (generic) lipo, I get about 3m30s flight time (doing constant flips, pitch pumps, fast tic tocs, etc.). With a 300mah 35C (generic) lipo, I get an amazing 5m of flight time (doing the same constant flips, pitch pumps, fast tic tocs, etc.) Even with the 200mah lipo, it's got equivalent power as my DBL mCPx (with HP08 main and HP03t tail, running on hyperion 500mah lipos).

I have BLHeli on the Xp3a esc, setup in arm gov mode (governed to 85%), and a v-curve in idle1.

Anyone have similar experiences in the comparison? Or have seen actual benefits of going brushless tail on the nano?

[daveapplemotors]

I like BLT in the wind.

In still air there is not too much difference although the brushless tail is a bit more precise.

But when the wind blows the HP02 tail motor shines. I saw constant rate pirouettes in a 20MPH wind with BLT. My other wild brushless nano with brushed tail did its first TBO and went down in flames in that wind. Just kidding. Lipos are safe. It flew again 10 seconds later.

And I don't notice too much current draw. I get 4 minutes good power with 240mah Hyperions.

Dylan, Brushless tail is amazing. You are the man!

[soonglim]

It's inevitable - a Double-Brushless Nano CPx with HP08 main and HP03T tail !!!

Idea started with asking why can't I put an HP05 in the nano and see how much better it would be than the HP03SE. (Turns out HP05 is only slightly better, but the HP08 is several times better).

There was no available frame to make this happen, so I made my own mod from the stock nano frame. I had done a similar thing with my previous mCPx mods. Basically, I created a flat motor mount out of aluminum sheet (about 0.7mm thick), and a vertical support for the 3-in-1 board to attach, which also braces the frame. It's hard to describe or too lengthy in words, but the attached photos says it all. My modified frame fits the HP08 main motor with about 1mm or more clearance on all sides.

To drive the HP08 main, I use an XP3A double-FETed with the good FETs (see https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=45 ). These FETs are amazing... double-fetted XP3A with these is better than the XP12A. The only problem is the XP3A I had didn't have a power-filter cap on it, so I had to solder on one taken from one of my broken XP12A. This filter cap is needed because the HP08 motor can draw a lot of current and cause a voltage drop to cause the 3-in-1 board to think it hit LVC prematurely. I programmed the XP3A with BLHeli, and set to arm gov mode - 85% throttle (90% is even more powerful, but way too fast for me), and a deep V-curve in idle 1. Pit travel is set to 85% (but can be 100% and no bog - but also way too fast for me). Pinion is 9-tooth.

To drive the HP03T tail, I use an un-modified XP3A but flashed with BLHeli tail setup. The tail boom is elongated by 10mm to 118mm, just so I have good clearance to avoid the main blade striking the RRC props. It actually flys pretty solid with stock length boom, but I have to cut the RRC props to a good length (~52mm total length), but flight time seem to decrease about 1min. With the slightly extended boom with the full length RRC prop, flight time was 4min to 4min 30sec (on hyperion 500mah 25c lipos) doing constant pitch pumps, fast tic tocs, rolls, flips, etc.

The power of this HP08/HP03T DBL nano is just amazing! I think this can be even better if someone (Rakon Heli, or MicroHeli, or better yet, Astroid Designs - if you see this) provide a mod kit with a CNC carbon fiber motor mount plate like in my mod and attach it to a Delrin vertical brace for the 3-in-1 board to attach to. Since I had to cut and drill the holes by hand, it's not very accurate, and while gear mesh is ok, it can be much better. When I rotate the blades by hand, there is some tightness because of the gear mesh. (Compared to the MicroHeli frame I have for my mCPx with the same HP08 motor, it just keep spinning).

Even with such power, the durability is amazing. After many crashes in the field, the only thing that broke was stripped gears - probably because I had made a metal main shaft for the mod. The metal main shaft was made from some old toy heli shaft by the way, and I used a collar from the Walkera v120d02 main shaft. To remedy the stripped gear issue, double up two gears that were already stripped (one of the photos attached shows this). Note the metal main shaft added about 2 grams to the total weight, but with the power of the HP08, it's neglible. So durable, after a crash, just pick it up and fly again.

Again, Astroid Designs, MicroHeli, and RakonHeli if you see this, it would be great if you could provide such a frame or frame mod for the nano. And a metal main shaft.

Update: Just added a YouTube video of a test-flight [ame]http://youtu.be/Y2KIpdiqJnU[/ame]

[donaldsneffe]

Hi,
wow - very cool stuff.

I also would appreciate a frame mod like yours available by Astroid or...
I am struggeling hard with my custom frame mods, too.

Originally Posted by soonglim

I used a collar from the Walkera v120d02 main shaft.

You are sure? 2 mm?
It looks similar to the collar from the Walkera 4b120 (I used).


Walter

[soonglim]

Originally Posted by donaldsneffe

Hi,
You are sure? 2 mm?
It looks similar to the collar from the Walkera 4b120 (I used).

The collar I used were from a set with the tail shaft collar for the Walkera v120d02 (same as their 4G6, and probably same as your 4b120). The tail collar was what I needed only from the set for my v120d02S since the v120d02S had 2.5mm main shaft, so it didn't fit there. But luckily I could use the main collar for my nano now.

[JEBSi]

soonglim, Microheli makes a metal main shaft and Lynx makes a heavy duty compressed carbon main shaft with a metal collar. Rakonheli also has a metal frame compatable with the BL motor with all the features that you want. I have one and like it. You can set the gear mesh perfectly and use different size landing gear. I like your landing gear a lot and the vertical brace is a nice idea, but that has to be the heaviest Nano on record.

[soonglim]

Originally Posted by JEBSi

soonglim, Microheli makes a metal main shaft and Lynx makes a heavy duty compressed carbon main shaft with a metal collar. Rakonheli also has a metal frame compatable with the BL motor with all the features that you want. I have one and like it. You can set the gear mesh perfectly and use different size landing gear. I like your landing gear a lot and the vertical brace is a nice idea, but that has to be the heaviest Nano on record.

That's right, it's one heavy nano, but still 10 to 15grams lighter than an equivalent DBL mCPx and in a much smaller form-factor. However, the weight is mostly from the motor and battery - it's like a flying motor and battery .

Yes, I saw the Microheli shaft later on WowHobbies and it looks to be about 1g lighter than my home made one. But I made mine slightly longer so I can double up on the main gear. I also prefer the metal main shaft over the carbon fiber. The metal one is more crash resistant. The cf one feels rubbery on rotating it after a crash or two - hence the metal one gives better transfer of torque on those sudden throttle pumps.

I also saw the RakonHeli frame, but it's only made for ring mounted motors. Needs a flat mount for the HP08 motor. In fact, Microheli could easily modify their Advance X frame for their mCPx for the nano just by extending the length to accommodate the larger nano gear, shortening the height for the shorter main shaft, replacing the main bearings with 2x5mm bearings, and using a "T" shaped 3-in-1 main board mount, then it would be the best frame for the nano to do the same brushless mods as the mCPx. I'm loving the small nano format. I can still fly it inside the house even with the HP08 souped up mod (at a lowered governed throttle - 75%). In more capable hands, one can probably still do 3-D in their living room with it.

[JEBSi]

Definitely a piece of work. I didn't notice how big the motor is. That thing has got some incredible pop on the pitch pumps. Very cool stuff!

[JEBSi]

Originally Posted by soonglim

I also saw the RakonHeli frame, but it's only made for ring mounted motors. Needs a flat mount for the HP08 motor. In fact, Microheli could easily modify their Advance X frame for their mCPx for the nano just by extending the length to accommodate the larger nano gear, shortening the height for the shorter main shaft, replacing the main bearings with 2x5mm bearings, and using a "T" shaped 3-in-1 main board mount, then it would be the best frame for the nano to do the same brushless mods as the mCPx. I'm loving the small nano format. I can still fly it inside the house even with the HP08 souped up mod (at a lowered governed throttle - 75%). In more capable hands, one can probably still do 3-D in their living room with it.

I was looking at the rakon frame and it does have holes for adjusting the motor mesh which I think might be able to accept a flat mount motor. Get rid of this piece:
http://www.rakonheli.com/rkh/index.p...emart&Itemid=1
Then screw the flat mount motor to the frame or screw the new motor to the ring mount and get a longer motor shaft and screws?

We all need CNC machines!

[Heli biggie]

I just went brushless main and was looking for the best settings for my dx8! Im running at 75 and 80 throttle curve but get tail blow out all the time , what can i do to fix this , or what should my settings be?

[soonglim]

Originally Posted by Heli biggie

I just went brushless main and was looking for the best settings for my dx8! Im running at 75 and 80 throttle curve but get tail blow out all the time , what can i do to fix this , or what should my settings be?

I use arm gov mode (arm to 92% throttle), and run a deep v-curve for idle up 1. You can start with a throttle v-curve set to 100-75-50-75-100 and adjust the "v" shape as needed. (There is some thread with a good explanation of using v-curves on Helifreak, by the way). My pitch travel is set to 85%. With this setup, my bl nano with the HP3SE 16500kv has good tail hold even with stock tail motor and stock tail length (with 35c oversky lipo, ok with stock lipo).

[Bhujang]

Originally Posted by donaldsneffe

Hi,
I found my perfect tail solution for my double BL Nano with 16600 kv main motor.

Before I tried HP02t and Hextronik 2 g Outrunner as tail motor.
Both did not work with "small" tail rotors (I tried stock, KBDD, and also the slightly bigger Xtwin).
But both tails worked perfectly with big tail rotors (I used Plantraco/RRC; but Walkera should also work).
But I do not like the huge rotors on the tail of this tiny heli; additionally you need big tail fins so that the rotor does not touch the ground.

Both of those motors (HP02t and Hextronik 2 g) have low kv values, < 8000 kv.

So I tried tail motors with higher kv values, Hawk 12000 and Hobbyking 12000.

And, what a big surprise:
Both of those motors work perfectly with "small tail rotors" (I used KBDD).
OK, they are about 1 g heavier than HP02t and Hextronik 2g, but:
- big tail rotor looks ugly in my eyes on the tiny Nano
- you can use a normal, short tail rod, do not have to make it longer (otherwise the RRC/Plantraco prop can touch main blades) - so little lighter
- you do not have to use a big tail fin (so little lighter)
- small tail rotors are also little lighter than the big ones.

All in all its only a very slight weight penalty (if any), <<< 1 g.

I weighed the tail rotors:

KBDD: 0.22 g
Walkera 4g3/4b120: 0.38 g
Plantraco/RRC: 0.41 g
Xtwin: 0.28 g
Nano stock tailrotor: 0.14 g


I guess, I have found my perfect tail for my 16600 Nano CPX

Use 300 mAh batteries and mCP x plugs on this heli.

Walter

Hi m8

What's the motor mount size on that tail motor? I am also using a hpo2 tail and dislike the large RRC props you have to use to stop it kicking... Do you need different esc settings or is it just a motor change?

Ay advice in swooping a HP02 over to the hawk 12000 much appreciated :-)

Do you run the tail in gov mode or tx mode?

Best wishes

Bhu

[Epoweredrc]

how do you know if the xp3 is set for gov mode? what shold the tc"s be for both gov n non gov?
my mcpx doesnt have gov with.the oversky10a but i run flat tc of 70 and 100 never had issues

[Wakesk8r]

Originally Posted by shihan

Hey, is there anyone willing to build me one of these. No soldering skills to speak of

I too am looking for someone to do a complete brushless build, both the main and tail motors going to brushless, with a programmable ESC (with governor)

[jlk69]

Try Megas Micros. Great guy and excellent service.

[Sneeky_Pete]

This is for an mcpx but I'm using the nano board. What do you guys think, everything ok?