what do you think of my piro flip lesson

[dannylightning]

sort and sweet but i thin it breaks these down pretty well the way i do them.. i would like your opinion on the lesson.. is this pretty easy to understand

piro flip lesson, a good explanation of how i do this move and i try to break it down into steps (2 min 51 sec)

[NSFlyer12]

Good job Danny. I'll have to try this out on the sim. Thanks for posting up the vid.

You should try http://camstudio.org/ for your vids

[Crowbar]

I like it a lot. Breaks it down into simple steps that you can actually fly along with and remember. I have lent the sim to my brother so I'll have to try that on the nano tomorrow. up half circle, down left circle. That'll be in my head for days. Please make more videos like this!

[Ozz58]

Nice job Danny. Should help a lot of pilots.

Craig

[dannylightning]

thanks guys. i have a whole video series i did starting with hovering and learning all your upright orientations up to some sport flying and light 3D moves. the piro flips is something i was never able to explain well. for some reason today it hit me when i was doing very slow piro flips. i though now i know how to explain this.. so i made this video..

doing things as slow as possible on the biggest helicopter on the sim makes you understand thigns better and will also help with your control, you should start doing things slow and than slightly faster and slightly faster and only go as fast as you can do the move properly. if going fast and your move is all out of whack slow it back down a bit till they are smooth again.

here is a link to my other videos here on helifreak..

https://www.helifreak.com/groups/flight-school-basic-steps-become-good-3d-pilot-new-advanced-pilots.html

[bstanley72]

I've only tried piro flips in the sim a couple of times, of course came nowhere near pulling one off. I've just spent about 8 minutes using your method and I won't say I have a half piro flip down yet, but I am keeping it in the air (it's ugly though)!

So, thanks!

[Blade120]

Looks good Danny nice job

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[gitbse]

WHAT A CRAPPY LESSON!!

Just kidding.
That's an interesting way to look at it. Nice to see other peoples' perspectives, it gives different looks at doing moves.

Danny do you ever go online in RF? You should join Sonny's room sometime. Good group usually in that room.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by dannylightning

sort and sweet but i thin it breaks these down pretty well the way i do them.. i would like your opinion on the lesson.. is this pretty easy to understand

Looks good.

It's not the way I plan on learning piro-flips, but I can see how this will help a lot of people.

My self-learning plan is based on gitbse's post of: https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...78&postcount=5. This requires a thorough understanding and feel for what is happening throughout the move. (I eventually what to learn a choas, but that is years away ).

[dannylightning]

thanks guys..

i am house setting for a friend who has dogs. real flight is his, i don't own real flight.

i have been flying in sonnys room a few times this week, usually early in the morning when i get home from work around 8am my time. not many people in there, usually one heliopter setting on the ground and no one flying.

i have phoenix.. today is my last day here and than i go back home.. i dont plan to buy another sim. phoenix works for me so you all wont see me on real flight any more.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Looks good.

It's not the way I plan on learning piro-flips, but I can see how this will help a lot of people.

My self-learning plan is based on gitbse's post of: https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...78&postcount=5. This requires a thorough understanding and feel for what is happening throughout the move. (I eventually what to learn a choas, but that is years away ).

Away from home in NZ, decided to give piro flips in the sim a crack tonight (not as if I can destroy anything ). This is the first time I have EVER tried these. This was after my normal 8 point prio warm ups and 8's.

Combine dannylightning's lesson with gitbse's post and add in the Nick Maxwell lesson on pirouetting flips (https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...52&postcount=6).

Started off with the Nick, flip-turn, roll-turn, flip-turn, roll-turn exercise. Tried to smooth the transitions between these, but has having trouble, then used dannylightnings, flip-around method, while concentrating on gitbse's orientations through the flip.

Following all this I was able to get some VERY shoddy half piro flips, then full prio flips. They travelled ALOT, and only in a single direction and orientation (CCW, tail-in, forward single flips), but managed quite a few without crashing. All in about an hour.

In the following days I will have to work on all the other orientation single piro flips.

Bring on play time.

So thank you dannylightning for the lesson. It has helped someone. ME.

Kudos also to Nick Maxwell and gitbse (and conversations with clicky, but hard to reference those).

With more sim practice my 130x will never be the same again. (X5 may get airborne this weekend, but more likely July so I can get someone else to look it over before trying to fly it).

[gitbse]

Having traveling problems is about collective during the flip. Piro flips take alot less collective than most realize, and once you can move the left stick properly they start to fall into place.

It may take awhile though. When I started doing them, they were sketchy, and I could only pull one off every 4 or 5 tries. It took quite awhile to make them smooth. However, it's still always fun.

[TommyBear]

Great work DannyLightning.
Now how do I pull off the second half ?

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by TommyBear

Great work DannyLightning.
Now how do I pull off the second half ?

DannyLightning explained in his video. First half, up-half circle. Second half down-half circle. Remember to try land the disc flat each time.

Also look at the Nick Maxwell vid on piro-flips. Good prep exercise. Helps you understand what is going on, breaking it down even further.

[dannylightning]

yeah, just like the first half, but down and half circle from 6 0 clock to 12 o clock..


thanks guys

[ArchmageAU]

Sorry to hijack this thread a bit, but I have some progress to add.

Working on piro-flips in the sim. Some things I noticed.

1. Get used to levelling a fast piroing heli.
2. Get used to levelling a fast piroing inverted heli.
3. Half-flip to flat, stabilise, then half-flip to flat again.
4. Practice CCW and CW rotating piro flips (interchange as much as possible to prevent handedness).
5. Don't use too much collective (thanks for this tip gitsbe).
6. Practice aborting move (stop/slow piro while adding collective, then re-orient).

Once you get the hang of these, they are really not so hard. Be sure you are solid in your upright and inverted orientations before you begin and you should progress VERY quickly. (Hooray for slow piro training )


Different helis feel different to piro-flip. More power/higher roll rates are easier.


I can repeatability piro-flip CW and CCW starting from flat piro and initiating move tail-in. Still travels a bit, but more practice will get it tighter. (btw, I am doing these full speed, no sim slow down). My stabilize fast piro needs lost of work.



I can see how each orientation will be a slight advancement on the previous one. It just comes down to cyclic timing with the heli in-air position. ie. to front flip from nose left when piroing CCW, start at 3 o'clock on the cyclic instead of 12 o'clock for tail-in.


Having fun with these. Thanks to all (danny, gitbse) for the advice.



I see I am going to have to do more on piro moves (CW and CCW).

[gitbse]

Good point on practicing CW and CCW equally. When you start all piro movements, it's awkward no matter what. Then most people get comfortable with a certain direction, mostly left for mode 2 fliers. Then if you want to learn the other direction, you are effectively starting from scratch all over again on the other direction. That's how I learned it. I started with left, and got really good with left. However, anything that needed right rudder, I couldn't do. This includes anythnig from piro flips down to even regular circuits with right rudder. I couldn't do it.

It took as much work for me to learn right rudder as it did originally learning left rudder. If you learn both at the same time, they will progress together. That's by far the best way to learn.

[gitbse]

Then you can do this!

Right Left Piro (0 min 47 sec)

[Stubbz]

Tried these on sim for the first tme evern last night based off of this thread and the others that have been posted. couldn't believe within a couple minutes i was actually getting half piro flips or i think they were half anyways. easy to get the flip to inverted but harder coming out. Something i'll be trying a bit more during play time on the sim.

Started tail in, forward flip right ail down elev to inverted tail in, think thats half and not full correct. deff take a lot of work to get more of a full rotation into it.

Problem i was having at first was when i start the stir for right stick my left thumb stick wanted to do a stir also just a mind thing to overcome

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by gitbse

Good point on practicing CW and CCW equally. When you start all piro movements, it's awkward no matter what. Then most people get comfortable with a certain direction, mostly left for mode 2 fliers. Then if you want to learn the other direction, you are effectively starting from scratch all over again on the other direction. That's how I learned it. I started with left, and got really good with left. However, anything that needed right rudder, I couldn't do. This includes anythnig from piro flips down to even regular circuits with right rudder. I couldn't do it.

It took as much work for me to learn right rudder as it did originally learning left rudder. If you learn both at the same time, they will progress together. That's by far the best way to learn.

This is exactly my thinking. After I got the basics in one direction, but did not have them "grooved", I start on the other.

It takes me slightly longer to learn something, but I do not have to re-learn it. Feels like I get move 2 at a discount.

gitbse, as you showed in your video, the easiest point to reverse at is tail-down/tail-in. However, unless you are comfortable with both, the instant you reverse, things will go horribly wrong.

gitbse, I am not currently at your level of heli skill (not even close), but working towards it. I "so" have to get RF to fly with you online.

Originally Posted by Stubbz

Tried these on sim for the first tme evern last night based off of this thread and the others that have been posted. couldn't believe within a couple minutes i was actually getting half piro flips or i think they were half anyways. easy to get the flip to inverted but harder coming out. Something i'll be trying a bit more during play time on the sim.

Started tail in, forward flip right ail down elev to inverted tail in, think thats half and not full correct. deff take a lot of work to get more of a full rotation into it.

Problem i was having at first was when i start the stir for right stick my left thumb stick wanted to do a stir also just a mind thing to overcome

Stubbz, I also found the half flip in easier than the half-flip out. Found for me it was my invert-piro levelling skill (or lack there of) that was causing the issues.

A full piro-flip is two half piro-flips joined together. The ideal is to have the disc flip in a consistent direction. If you can time the cyclic with the tail, it just works (minutes to learn a lifetime to master).

I did/do not have the left stick stir problem. I can see where some would though. I concentrate on timing the cyclic moves with the heli (not stick angles/stiring). There is a subtle difference. Hours of slow piros has laid these foundations. I start each half of the the move with a single move, but then fly the rest of it.

This is so much easier to learn mode 2 than mode 1. I have seen what mode 1 pilots do to prio flip and the stick movements are ugly. The advantage for mode 1 piro flip pilots is that they really must "fly" the move, not just stick stir. Mind you, for a mode 1 pilot, rolls and loops are easier to learn as there is no cyclic "cross-chatter". Mode 2 has the advantage on pretty much all piro moves.

If you want to see how ugly the stick movements are for a mode 1 piro flip is, record your piro-flip in the sim, change your controller type, then replay with stick display.

Have you noticed that if you correct to the wrong elevator mid-flip you end up in the same vertical orientation? ie. CCW prio flip from upright tail-in, cyclic forward to left (12 to 9) instead of forward to right (12 to 3) and you end up upright nose-in instead of invert tail-in. (Makes sense, but feels odd first time it happens).

Enough for now. Thanks for listening (reading).