CPII / Hard deck field reports

[nightflyr]

It would be good to see how these units are working in the field by pilots..

So if you got one or will be soon, Please feel free to post your results.

[n6nev]

The HD has saved my bird from destruction 3 times . I only wish I had it much sooner, just think of the $$ I would have saved.. very pleased and would buy again

[distructor]

I don't recommend it for a 450 class of machine because I think the minimum 50' HD altitude puts the heli to high...the heli gets small at the top of loops, etc. For that reason I've removed it from the 450x, and have bought HC3-SX.

FWIW, the unit does its job and I may put it on my e640 when I get the beastx/tail to get along.

[jperkosk]

May I ask how you had it installed on 450x? AFAIK it's not possible to successfully marry AR7200BX with CP2.

[distructor]

Originally Posted by jperkosk

May I ask how you had it installed on 450x? AFAIK it's not possible to successfully marry AR7200BX with CP2.

I used a BeastX +receiver and lots of double sided tape to get everything on the bird.

[bullfroggs]

i cannot believe how fast this thing is on recovering my heli. unreal. it has saved my heli an amazing 4 times just today. yeh, not a very good pilot. it works and works well. now, fma, let's get a gps for it.

[SKYQUEST]

Going to maiden mine tomorrow...too much too do being Im switching jobs, sold and bought my car, etc...tomorrow is supposed to be wonderful weather wise when it gets around 11-12p

[I-FELN]

Originally Posted by distructor

I don't recommend it for a 450 class of machine because I think the minimum 50' HD altitude puts the heli to high...the heli gets small at the top of loops, etc. For that reason I've removed it from the 450x, and have bought HC3-SX.

FWIW, the unit does its job and I may put it on my e640 when I get the beastx/tail to get along.

Quote!
also the T-Rex 500 gets quite so small at the top.. I think to desembarque HD and return to old firmware software release. 30 feet would be fine for the 500. Seem with his 50 feet the HD is only to use with bigger Heli.
I have a Rex 600 under construction and will have the second HD unit on board.

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by I-FELN

Quote!
also the T-Rex 500 gets quite so small at the top.. I think to desembarque HD and return to old firmware software release. 30 feet would be fine for the 500. Seem with his 50 feet the HD is only to use with bigger Heli.
I have a Rex 600 under construction and will have the second HD unit on board.

Hi distructor,

Consider the following approach as opposed to removing the HD module and returning to the old firmware release for the following reasons.

1. When the HD module is used, CPII manages (gives negative and positive) collective pitch during emergency recoveries. This makes recoveries faster and aids in keeping the helicopter from crashing.

2. Use the CPII with HD as a bail out switch if automatic emergency recoveries with the Level in Hard Deck Mode at a 50' set altitude is too high for your size helicopter.

3. Using CPII with HD programmed to Level Flight Mode this will give you the same leveling stability as the OLD firmware did.

4. Also if CPII HD is programmed and used as described in item #3 above, CPII with HD can be remotely turned OFF and flown with out stabilization. But the advantage, when using CPII HD in the Level Flight mode, is that it will very quickly level the helicopter with the addition of collective pitch management even if the helicopter were inverted when the bail out switch is turned ON. The OLD firmware without the HD mode would not do this.

5. Another advantage to using the HD module is that CPII takes complete, 100% control of aileron and elevator channels and +/- 8 degrees of collective pitch until the helicopter is level at which time these controls are returned to the pilot when the bail out switch is turned ON. Again, the OLD firmware without the HD module would not do this, take control from the pilot until the helicopter is level, making it impossible for the pilot to give the wrong/incorrect Tx cyclic inputs that could crash their helicopter.

These are just some things to consider before you remove HD module.

Just to emphasize, you do not have to use the Level in Hard Deck Mode to take advantage of the new and improved feature of having a HD module installed.

I hope this helps in your decision making process.

Jack

[TeeJayShelton]

Old time co-pilot user I haven't had one installed on a bird in a year or more.
Sold them as it seemed I never used them anymore.
I bought a new combo 6 just to try out the hd feature.
I have a good spot to cheat it
Where we ride our dirt bikes and quads has a pit that is 30-40' deep. Once I have got it tested and working well with beast I will post some video of it with the deck in the 15-20' range
I am married with 3 kids and work a lot of hours so may be a couple weeks before I get it done.

[CZorzella]

TeeJayShelton, concerning the test at the pit, I believe that the following information may be useful: https://www.helifreak.com/4498806-post.html

Originally Posted by TeeJayShelton

Old time co-pilot user I haven't had one installed on a bird in a year or more.
Sold them as it seemed I never used them anymore.
I bought a new combo 6 just to try out the hd feature.
I have a good spot to cheat it
Where we ride our dirt bikes and quads has a pit that is 30-40' deep. Once I have got it tested and working well with beast I will post some video of it with the deck in the 15-20' range
I am married with 3 kids and work a lot of hours so may be a couple weeks before I get it done.

[rando]

I think he intends to initialize the unit at the bottom of the pit and then fly while standing at the top. This will lower his hard deck altitude relative to the flying position.

[CZorzella]

I wouldn't do that.

[TeeJayShelton]

Yes thats correct. Ill fire it up around 30' below where I am standing. I will test it at 50' first to get a feel for it. I fly over that pit from time to time. Kinda nice being 30-40 foot above ground with model at eye level. Do the same thing at the lake where I fly. I fly off a point that once I takeoff and get 30' away from me the ground is about 30 below the heli and still sloping away.. spots like this arent good for cp2 but fun to fly. The pit I am talking about though is a good spot for cp. Once out of the pit the ground is levelish. (Aside from jumps and berms, pretty flat) Its a big pit too. Has some jumps(dirtbike/quad) and a good sand area in the bottom then good steep hill climbs out on two sides.

It has arrived but havent had time to touch it yet. Wife has been sick and im slammed at work.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[pctomlin]

Took my heli out this weekend for my first try with the HD installed. IR router said I was good to go with 35 deg difference and 1 ft altitude. Played with the HD for most of the flight getting used to it, recovery was lightning fast.

And then..............


Lost all control in the middle of a HD recovery and crashed. Hard to tell what happened with all the broken linkage, but right now I am going to guess that either the elevator link came off the arm inside the frame (still running the old style arm with the ball facing forward) or the horizontal sensor came unstuck from its mount on the boom. The heli just went nuts from the elevator link coming off and HD still trying to save it or the horizontal sensor flapping in the breeze, probably will never know. During the rebuild I will install the updated elevator arm and make sure the horizontal sensor has no chance of coming off. My O550s are nimble as hummingbirds and the recoveries were blazing fast. When I get things repaired and going again I will definately tone down the recovery. Shame I did not have my keychain camera up and running, it was mounted and was going to record flight number two, the HD recoveries were impressive.

Damage not too bad, a lot of links broken, main gear shredded, boom very bent, carbon tail push rod split very badly, static streamer aluminum tubing broken in half and bottom frame tray broke in half. Other than that everything else is good (Outrage 550s are built like tanks and crash good LOL). I am really bummed about totalling my custom painted canopy (after all I did crash proof my heli) and a brand new set of Edge 553mm fbl blades.

And for those thinking HD is no good because I crashed your thinking would be wrong, it works fantastic up to the point you have some sort of mechanical failure, then it can't save anything just like any other system.

[rando]

Aw, that's too bad. The recoveries are lighting quick which unfortunately means they may stress any weak portion of your mechanical setup.

[jdd1]

Very sorry hear about you crash today.

After reading your post about your crash I made a listed thing that I did to lessen the aggressiveness of CoPilot II HD on helicopters that were very agile.

Helpful Hints to tweak CoPilot II Hard Deck:

Question:
Having problem with Emergancy Recoveries being too fast or aggressive. What are some things that I can do to soften my Emergency Recoveries?

Answer:
Hint #1: During Quick Setup when you are asked to set the collective pitch to +8 degrees, lower the collective pitch to +6 degree instead.

Hint #2: Go into Preferences and lower the pitch and roll gain below the default setting ( default is pitch = 70 and roll = 50). You are allowed to lower these gain as low as 40. You may want to experiment at different settings.

Hint #3: Many of the newer digital servos are very, very fast. If you are able to slow the travel/response time that will help. Many of the FBL systems have an adjustable setting for this. I am sure they go by different name with different FBL systems. Example: with a Beast X system you would lower the Agility setting.

Hint #4: The Pitch Curve can be flattened, e.g. 10, 30, 50, 70, 90.

Hint #5: Increase the Expo Rate in the FBL program and remove Expo from Tx. By doing so the Tx and CPII out puts will be influenced by the Expo.

Hint #6: Reduce Elevator and Aileron servo travel. Do so in the software or the Tx, which ever is inappropriate
.
Hint #7: Reduce Head Speed.

Question:
Are there things that I can do the make sure my experience with CoPilot II HD is a good one?

Answer:
Hint #1: Make sure that all ball links and linkage are in good condition. Emergency Recoveries can place a lot of stress on the these items.

Hint #2: Secure the vertical sensor and horizontal sensor with nylon wire/cable straps that are included with CoPilot II.

Hint #3: The more rigid the head is the better. Stiff main blades, firm feathering shaft dampeners, stiff composite or metal main blade holders can all aid in the prevention of boom strikes during aggressive emergency recoveries.

Hope these hints help.
Jack

[pctomlin]

Hey Jack,
Thanks for the tips on toning down the recoveries. I believe you should cut and paste this into the "where to start" thread you created, great info.

All my links were the Quik UK Rocket links, best out there in my opinion. Linkage should not be an issue when I change out the elevator arm to the different style.

+1 (can't +1 enough) to ensuring the sensors are absolutely secure.

[I-FELN]

please,
during PREFLIGHT I had a warning: "YAW/COL. SETUP IS OUT OF RANGE" what mean that?

With the first Quick Setup I set the collective pitch to +6 degrees.
Repeated Quick Setup with collective pitch set to +8 degrees and the warning is disappeared.
Could be the warning related to that or other?
Thanks in advance for suggestion!

[jdd1]

Originally Posted by I-FELN

please,
during PREFLIGHT I had a warning: "YAW/COL. SETUP IS OUT OF RANGE" what mean that?

With the first Quick Setup I set the collective pitch to +6 degrees.
Repeated Quick Setup with collective pitch set to +8 degrees and the warning is disappeared.
Could be the warning related to that or other?
Thanks in advance for suggestion!

Hi I-FELN,

I believe I have see that once before after one of my Quick Setups. If I remember correctly, I attempted to restrict the total movement of the elevator and aileron in attempt to soften the aggressiveness of HD ERs on my Trex 500. It appears there needs to be sufficient movement/travel of these channels to guarantee there is adequate movement of those servos to perform emergency recoveries. Same holds true for collective pitch. There must be enough travel in the servos from the +8 degrees position to full collective position. Example if the helicopter were set to a low +9 degrees of collective in the Tx and you set +8 degrees during Quick Setup when asked then an error will occur because the travel is too small between the two.

Just guessing, this may be the reason for your error message.

Jack