Throttle return spring part two video

[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

That's cool, I didn't know that even existed.

Switchglo Pro used in tandem with the GLOve.

It also lights the glow plug automatically when the RPM's drop too low to prevent low speed stalling.

[Sonic_BOOMER_SOONER]

Originally Posted by sleddog7

Boomer, I'm not concerned about the cost of a burned servo . Battery draw would be a small issue if it were my set-up.

Sure, bad things happen, but my flying style/ pre-flight ritual/ avionics install greatly lessen my chance for failure

The return spring is not ridiculous by any means (I hope that's not what you thought ), but I wouldn't bother doing it.

Understood! Actually, I suspect that most people that do this will be thinking about protecting their pocketbook by avoiding a chicken-dance rather than safety.

By the same token you won't catch me "going off the deep end", running around accusing people of not being safe or not caring about other people if they haven't put a spring on their nitro heli. (I'm not implying anyone has done that, by the way.)

This really does come down to personal preference and whether you want to feel like every available precaution has been taken.

[TheBum]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

Switchglo Pro used in tandem with the GLOve.

It also lights the glow plug automatically when the RPM's drop too low to prevent low speed stalling.

The only issue I could see with that is it isn't fool-proof against a very talented fool, meaning that it doesn't protect someone from accidentally having the throttle wide-open when attempting to start. On my last nitro, I used a Switchglo in combination with programmable mixes so that the Switchglo would only trigger if I was in TH.

[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by TheBum

The only issue I could see with that is it isn't fool-proof against a very talented fool, meaning that it doesn't protect someone from accidentally having the throttle wide-open when attempting to start. On my last nitro, I used a Switchglo in combination with programmable mixes so that the Switchglo would only trigger if I was in TH.

All those mixes are in the GLOve.
It will not light the glow plug if the throttle is anywhere other than idle position.
Idle up=no glow.
Throttle stick even slightly above zero=no glow

It is absolutely fool proof in the hot start area

[TheBum]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

All those mixes are in the GLOve.
It will not light the glow plug if the throttle is anywhere other than idle position.
Idle up=no glow.
Throttle stick even slightly above zero=no glow

It is absolutely fool proof in the hot start area

Ah, OK. The way you described it, it sounded like the throttle position didn't matter. It's not something you couldn't do with mixes, but it does sound simpler.

[sleddog7]

Originally Posted by McKrackin

If you think a tiny spring draws more amperage than the blades....show us.

I see you didn't try it. It is physically impossible to not increase the amp draw with a spring resisting exponentaily as it streches.... yes, phyisically impossible.

I'm not going to do the experiment, because I already know the answer. You'd be surprised at the readings you'll get with and without a spring using this device. I have one and will not set up an airplane or jet without it... helis don't matter in this case, it's for multiple servo set-ups on a single control surface.

Check this... I will mail you the meter so you can do your own tests. When your done, mail it back to me and post the vid here on HF. Deal? ... Yes, I'm serious.

http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=881

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by sleddog7

I see you didn't try it. It is physically impossible to not increase the amp draw with a spring resisting exponentaily as it streches.... yes, phyisically impossible.

I'm not going to do the experiment, because I already know the answer. You'd be surprised at the readings you'll get with and without a spring using this device. I have one and will not set up an airplane or jet without it... helis don't matter in this case, it's for multiple servo set-ups on a single control surface.

Check this... I will mail you the meter so you can do your own tests. When your done, mail it back to me and post the vid here on HF. Deal? ... Yes, I'm serious.

http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=881

You think a little spring on a throttle servo is going to drastically increase the current draw? Your NUTS. Yes, I do know. I am a certified instrumentation and Industrial Power and Control Electrician. Yes, it will draw a little bit more, possibly measurable, but it is not going to affect your RX life anythign substantial. maybe 3 min less on a WHOLE Rx charge. Servo's are meant to PULL. The spring does not apply a ton of force. You try it. WE HAVE. We KNOW the results. Put your little meter on there, what does it draw? Now add a litlle spring, thats just enough to close the throttle and do a draw.

It's simple Physics people. Not redesigning the Space Shuttle. Small, gentle force. Not some super strong spring

[sleddog7]

McKracken,

You may not realize this, large tail servo amp draws are at short spikes of high amps, your throttle will be at a continuous high amp draw.

I'm not saying this is a failure waiting to happen, just sayin' it's something I don't want my power system to deal with.

[sleddog7]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

Yes, I do know. I am a certified instrumentation and Industrial Power and Control Electrician. Yes, it will draw a little bit more, possibly measurable,

Well there ya go.

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by sleddog7

McKracken,

You may not realize this, large tail servo amp draws are at short spikes of high amps, your throttle will be at a continuous high amp draw.

I'm not saying this is a failure waiting to happen, just sayin' it's something I don't want my power system to deal with.

It's not a High Amp draw!! Its a little spring for cripes sakes. What do you people think were talking about here? The spring is the size of a retractable pen spring, but longer and more coils. Not even a Oz of force I would guess. My Hitec 65S cyclic servo's on my B400 put out 25-30 Oz-In and my Hyperion Tail DS 09GMD is 13 Oz-In at its weakest.

[banditpowdercoat]

HOw about quoting my WHOLE post, not just a part to make it sound how you want it.

Yes, it will draw a teeeny bit more. So does adding any other electronics. if your that worried about power draw that the miniscule draw from a return spring would have, maybe you should get a bigger RX pack huh?? I'm talking 1/20th of a watt, if even that much

[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by sleddog7

I see you didn't try it. It is physically impossible to not increase the amp draw with a spring resisting exponentaily as it streches.... yes, phyisically impossible.

I'm not going to do the experiment, because I already know the answer. You'd be surprised at the readings you'll get with and without a spring using this device. I have one and will not set up an airplane or jet without it... helis don't matter in this case, it's for multiple servo set-ups on a single control surface.

I know it will increase but at its highest amp draw it will not come close to the tail servos lowest.
Tail blades are never neutral.There is always a tremendous amount of torque on them.

Just like Playfair said...He uses a throttle return spring on all his helis and when his tail servos get older he retires them to the throttle position.Hmmm....

He also designs,builds and sell heli specific electronic components.
I have some of his work on my Trex 700 as a matter of fact

[Rªzª]

A. Higher draw is what is it is... Drawing more amps as little at that may be (if anyone cares to actually measure this instead of speculating, but mileage will obviously vary depending on servos and springs used) Fact is YES it will draw more. Maybe even enough that some day a person will receive a low voltage cutoff or brownout in an unrecoverable situation because of it. Yup that's certainly a possibility. People already complain enough of brownouts in their systems without the extra draw from a throttle servo added into the mix. Don't forget there's 4 other servos banging and stalling every which way. They don't need a throttle servo taking some of their juice away. Whatever BEC someone may be using may not be able to handle it in all situations.

B. When and if a brownout ever does occur (for any reason at all) the pilot may not necessarily want their engine to immediately cut power. Receivers can quickly recover from brownouts. If the engine is cut it could potentially make an already bad situation much worse.

That's two possible real world situations where this mod could cause someone to crash their heli (maybe even into a crowd of people) So why introduce potential problems to your system just for some false sense of security to prevent the dreaded chicken dance? There are far worse things to go wrong that can do much more damage to helis and people. The more failsafes you put in a system the higher the probability you're setting yourself up for something to fail. I.E. failsafes are just extra points of failure. Keep things simple, use common sense, use preflight checks, test your equipment, and play safe. Those are the best safeguards you're going to get. Period.

[Sonic_BOOMER_SOONER]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

A. Higher draw is what is it is... Drawing more amps as little at that may be (if anyone cares to actually measure this instead of speculating, but mileage will obviously vary depending on servos and springs used) Fact is YES it will draw more. Maybe even enough that some day a person will receive a low voltage cutoff or brownout in an unrecoverable situation because of it. Yup that's certainly a possibility. People already complain enough of brownouts in their systems without the extra draw from a throttle servo added into the mix. Don't forget there's 4 other servos banging and stalling every which way. They don't need a throttle servo taking some of their juice away. Whatever BEC someone may be using may not be able to handle it in all situations.

True, but insignificant. Nobody tells people not to use mixture control because "that's one too many servos for the system to handle," and that's adding yet another servo to the system, albiet typically a size smaller. They just make sure to use equipment that can handle their needs. This is why powersafe receivers were created. I'm using the AR7100R, which has healthy power cables, but to your point IMO far too many are running 600 & 700 class nitro helis on rxs getting power from a servo cable or running insufficient regulators.

Originally Posted by Rªzª

B. When and if a brownout ever does occur (for any reason at all) I don't necessarily want my engine to immediately cut power. Receivers can quickly recover from brownouts. If the engine is cut it could potentially make an already bad situation much worse.

This is a very well articulated point. I'm still going to use the throttle spring, but this has likely convinced me that tuning it to lower to idle is the safest way to use it. More work for me now, thanks Raza. (Just kidding. You've made a valuable point and I'm glad you did!)

Originally Posted by Rªzª

Those are the best safeguards you're going to get. Period.

God forbid you ever have 90 sized heli in idle-up go out of control into a crowd of people. You'd likely feel very differently about making such a definitive statement then. This might be a one in a million or one in a billion scenario we're talking about here, but we're also talking about potential loss of life.

[Rªzª]

Originally Posted by Sonic_BOOMER_SOONER

True, but insignificant. Nobody tells people not to use mixture control because "that's one too many servos for the system to handle," and that's adding yet another servo to the system. They just make sure to use equipment that can handle their needs.

True but really mixture servos are also not sprung so there's no real constant draw there. They're more like another regular throttle servo. I would suspect (hope) though that if someone were adding another servo to their heli they are making sure they are not using a weak bec. Someone adding a return spring may not realize this and take the extra precaution. Either case it would be difficult to really determine if whatever bec you have is "good enough" to handle the extra load

Originally Posted by Sonic_BOOMER_SOONER

God forbid you ever have 90 sized heli in idle-up go out of control into a crowd of people. You'd likely feel very differently about making such a definitive statement then. This might be a one in a million or one in a billion scenario we're talking about here, but we're also talking about potential loss of life.

Don't forget that with a 90 even with an idling or shut off motor the blades are going to be spinning 1000+ rpms as that heli goes flying into people. It may not parade around hacking and slashing up people by the dozens in the grizzly scenario that comes to mind in the scenario you portray (joking) but the initial hit is still going to hurt.

[sleddog7]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

HOw about quoting my WHOLE post, not just a part to make it sound how you want it.

Yes, it will draw a teeeny bit more. So does adding any other electronics. if your that worried about power draw that the miniscule draw from a return spring would have, maybe you should get a bigger RX pack huh?? I'm talking 1/20th of a watt, if even that much

Are you done yet?? LMAO

[Sonic_BOOMER_SOONER]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

Don't forget that with a 90 even with an idling or shut off motor the blades are going to be spinning 1000+ rpms as that heli goes flying into people. It may not parade around hacking and slashing up people by the dozens in the grizzly scenario that comes to mind in the scenario you portray (joking) but the initial hit is still going to hurt.

I agree it's going to hurt, period! But another scenario is that because it drops to idle it never makes it to where the people are...

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by sleddog7

Are you done yet?? LMAO

Yes I am because oviously you have your head so far up your #$$ that you can see your tonsils. I know what works, I know what it draws and that there is no servo damaging current draining conditions that will occur. So ya Think whatver the F u wana think, I am done trying to talk common sense because it appears you have none.

And if I upset someone with my post, Tough. Suck it up Princess. Some people just keep pushing and preaching on something they have never used or experienced and think they are the end all know all on the subject when in fact they don;t have a clue of what they are talking about.



I have stated before, I have been running throttle return springs for 16+ years. And one of my Nitro's has had same throttle servo on it of over 6 of those years. I have never burned a servo out or caused damage in any way because of the springs.

I don't know how much more proof or information you need??

[Sonic_BOOMER_SOONER]

Good grief!

Let's keep this civil!! Raza and I are managing a healthy back and forth without slinging any mud...

[Rªzª]

Originally Posted by Sonic_BOOMER_SOONER

That could happen! But another scenario is that because it drops to idle it never makes it to where the people are...

Arguable. I think the point is that this may prevent collateral damage AFTER the initial hit. I'd argue that once the heli is down, it's down and not going to do any further damage.

The one in a billion is where the heli may just be gently sawing it's way into a crowd of people not really on an initial crash trajectory with the ground. Definitely not something I ever want to see ever.

It's just my best guess here, but the odds of that happening are much lower than the odds of doing the mod causing a different kind of failure. This is why I generally try to stay away from too many mods.

That may just be coming from lessons I've learned from dealing with computers over the years. The less I've "tinkered" with them the better and more reliable they've worked. So far that's also been the case with helis. I just tend to stay away from things that can add a new point of failure.

I'm not saying this mod is bad in any way. Just something I wouldn't do personally. If it's something that feels good for you that's awesome go for it. I'll even help you install it I'm just putting into words why I personally wouldn't.

Cheers