BeastX and cp II gains for stability?

[SKYQUEST]

Hey all. I'm curious on my trex 600e w/ a beastX what the gains you guys have your co pilot 2 set to. I had mine around 60 and 70 for the FB'd set-up...but I had to put it to 100% on both ail and ele to make it half as quick returning to level compared to when it was FB'd. Is this ok / normal? I havent emergency recovered yet so, I hope it's as quick as it needs to be.
I adjusted the gains on the FB'd set-up to where it oscilated, then backed off a little. I can not get the FBL set-up to oscilate (like I said, gains at 100%)


On a different note, I recently put those chinese tail weights on my tail and was able to increase my gain from 32% to 43% Good stuff.

[nightflyr]

When you add the CPII to FBL reaction time slows some due to the fact of the FBL gyro.
Increasing your gains will help, might also try increasing the ATV on your cyclic.

[SKYQUEST]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

When you add the CPII to FBL reaction time slows some due to the fact of the FBL gyro.
Increasing your gains will help, might also try increasing the ATV on your cyclic.

Increasing ATV via the programmer...I just realized that now .

Why does it have to be chilly today here in the North East! Grrr!

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by SKYQUEST

Increasing ATV via the programmer...I just realized that now .

Why does it have to be chilly today here in the North East! Grrr!

No I was referring to the ATV's on your Tx

[sutty]

Not sure how increasing the ATV in the TX will help, other than for normal flight behaviour, as opposed to recovery. During recovery, the CPII is pretty much in charge for those 2 seconds. Normally, Tx based ATVs increase how fast the MB rotates, when it is set to Tx mode. Well it works for the other modes too, but personally I go for Tx mode, so I can use expo too. You cannot overdrive the servos, as the MB knows its endpoints, which you enter during set-up, so personally I went for 120% in the CPII for travel adjust, and maybe can go more? This allows the CPII to send bigger signals to the MB in recovery mode, which in turn makes the MB react by delivering faster rotation rates.

On my initial tests I could not believe how fast my 600 recovered. The very first tests, on a perfect day, I would flick the switch at anytime, in the middle of say a piro flip, or anything else for that matter, and bang, upright. Half a second at most.

I am flying in recovery mode only, and have not had chance to tweak the CPII gains up fully, by flying in activated mode, as I have not had any nice bright days since my first tests. There have been some, of course, but never when I have been able to fly the 600. I have only got as far as 60, and am on my way up, so it is interesting to me that you managed to get it right up to 100 without hunting. I had been wondering about this, as I never had an FB set-up with the CPII, and was wondering what was a normal value for the CPII on a 600, and just how fast it could end up if I kept on going up. From what you say it would seem I could move them right up to 100%. I guess I'll just try in steps of 10 until I probably end up where you are too. I'll be careful as I go up though, as I realise there are additional factors at play here.

I started low on the CPII gains by the way, as I had received some advice from someone else, that they could only get theirs up to 40 without hunting and he had this on two 600s. This was on an FB set-up though, so we'll see.

Cheers

Sutty

[nightflyr]

Emergency recovery can not be flown full time..

It is only enabled if the CPII is off and the helicopter is at an extreme attitude then switch on.

If CPII is on during normal operations.. it will correct the helicopters attitude but not in emergency recovery mode.

Increasing the ATVs will quicken the cyclic to an extent as far as the FBL unit goes.

[sutty]

I am flying with CPII off, and engaging it only for ER. And it is working very well already. I just think it can be better still, like the OP, I am trying to optimise it. My tests were at about 50 feet, and flicking the 'on' switch in the middle of a move had me right side up in no time. All I had to think about was putting the collective right to stop height loss, and letting go of the rudder, but it turned over so quickly I could have done it at 10 feet. Amazing, but maybe can be better still.

Cheers

Sutty

[nightflyr]

Keep in mind your limited to the speed of your servos...
Once you reach their limit that is all you'll get.

[sutty]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

Increasing the ATVs will quicken the cyclic to an extent as far as the FBL unit goes.

ATVs can make a huge difference with regard to how the MB performs. It can go from being a ***** cat, to a wild beast, by setting the ATVs how you like them, as long as the heli is physically capable of delivering these fast rates. How much benefit really depends on how much cyclic you have at set-up step L, without binding, and I have a very large value on the 600. The maximum rates the MB can deliver are huge, I think it may be 600 degrees per second, so if you can make it use those rates, then recovery should be awesome, and not limited by the MB FBL gyros in any way. As soon as the CPII sends an instruction, the MB will do it. There should be practically no delay, and this is what I am observing.

Cheers

Sutty
EDIT: lol, I can't write, ***** cat. Thinks it is rude.

[SKYQUEST]

Originally Posted by sutty

You cannot overdrive the servos, as the MB knows its endpoints, which you enter during set-up, so personally I went for 120% in the CPII for travel adjust, and maybe can go more?

That is exactly what I did and the recovery nearly doubled in speed. 120%. Flying w/ it on, I also noticed it levels way faster.
It recovers like when it was FB'd back in the day now.

Thanks you guys...practically engineers...well, actually, this is engineering to some degree, right?

[sutty]

Awesome, this is what I had thought, but am pleased to hear it first hand as it were. The MB responds to ATVs to deliver faster rotation rates, and in theory will not perform any better when going much beyond about 110%, as it is meant to deliver its fastest rates, 600 degrees per second, at values around this figure. This is why I chose 120%, as I thought I know for sure I will be extracting the maximum from the MB, and the MB set-up would prevent any overdrive issues. I am glad that you are back were you had it for FB, as you ought to expect at least the same, if not better, from FBL.

I wasn't joking when I said, in my tests, I couldn't believe how fast it recovered. The only thing stopping me now is the speed at which I can hit that switch to turn it on, assuming I have a moment. Not had to do it in real life yet, but in the tests it really was excellent.

It's interesting that this issue of ATVs with the MB is apparently far more complex that it might at first seem. I have recently been discussing this point with many MB users in the MB FBL forum, and also with the head developer at BeastX. I e-mailed him to ask him why 110% might be considered the limit in terms of delivered rotation rates, as reported by some of his technical team on the forum, and yet people often report faster rotation rates when using ATVs higher than this, and he replied that it was far too complex to attempt to describe in an e-mail, and that the only way he could hope to explain it to me was if he could speak to me. As I write I am still awaiting his call as he promised, but I know when I speak to him it will be an interesting conversation, as I already kind of guessed that it would be far more complex than it at first seems.

You mention about engineering, and it is these technical aspects of the hobby that are a major part of the reason why I love it so much. I'll be sure to report back when I have the information with regard to exactly how the ATVs affect the MB, other than what we already know, i.e. it can make it blindingly fast.

By the way, thanks for letting me know how it worked out for you. As soon as I get a good day I will try the higher gain settings, and if, like you, I don't get any hunting by the time I get to 100%, thereafter I may even try a higher ATV from the CPII, to see if it can recover even faster.

Cheers

Sutty