[Taranis] Unwanted Sticky Throttle Hold

[distructor]

I've setup my own basic Protos model template without to much difficulty, but wanted to go to a more advanced setup with audio using the Synergy E5 template on R/C Settings as a starting point. Using that template in the simulator, when I hit SF, the monitor shows the CH3 only going to 0, not -100 as in my basic template. For me the behavour of Throttle Hold in the template seems broken. Try as I might, I can't get it to behave like my own basic template. I assume this term is what they refer to as Sticky Throttle Hold.

I've gone through tab by tab in the simulator trying to find a smoking gun without success.

Why would one want TH to behave this way? How do I get rid of it, and make Thr always go to -100 when SF is pulled?

Any help appreciated.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by distructor

I've setup my own basic Protos model template without to much difficulty, but wanted to go to a more advanced setup with audio using the Synergy E5 template on R/C Settings as a starting point. Using that template in the simulator, when I hit SF, the monitor shows the CH3 only going to 0, not -100 as in my basic template. For me the behavour of Throttle Hold in the template seems broken. Try as I might, I can't get it to behave like my own basic template. I assume this term is what they refer to as Sticky Throttle Hold.

I've gone through tab by tab in the simulator trying to find a smoking gun without success.

Why would one want TH to behave this way? How do I get rid of it, and make Thr always go to -100 when SF is pulled?

Any help appreciated.

Can you post your .eepe file (as a .txt).

In the mix tab, the last entry for throttle should be a replace value that is MAX -100.

The Taranis Heli template is too simple (and it assumes CCPM120). Most of us with FBL units do not need CCPM mixing as it's done in the FBL unit.

My beginners template (in Beginners Taranis programming guide for RC helis.) may be a bit complex, but it is a good base for doing anything.

[distructor]

Thanks for taking a look.
I did a setup by the beginners guide, which does a pretty good job of explaining things .
The template I was trying to use as a starting point is the Synergy E5 model posted in rcsettings. It has most of the features I want although they went about it in a somewhat different way then the beginners guide.

http://rcsettings.com/index.php/view...rgy-e5-01-2014

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by distructor

Thanks for taking a look.
I did a setup by the beginners guide, which does a pretty good job of explaining things .
The template I was trying to use as a starting point is the Synergy E5 model posted in rcsettings. It has most of the features I want although they went about it in a somewhat different way then the beginners guide.

http://rcsettings.com/index.php/view...rgy-e5-01-2014

Please do not use this model. It took a while to correct it for another member last night. (Tying to get a TRex150 working). This model has a few "gotcha's". (like AutoHold and timer not working properly). Using Hold as a separate flight mode between Normal and UI1 is also a problem.

DO NOT blindly use a model you do not understand. It may do things you do not expect.

Maybe I need to post a BD3SX rescue model. (with explanation as to how I do it).

[distructor]

Thanks for your help/advice. I'll take my best shot at building my setup based from your guides.

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Maybe I need to post a BD3SX rescue model. (with explanation as to how I do it).

Yes.

I am also having trouble with a few details of the tutorial.

Specifically, my timer is not starting as expected. Not only does it seem to be only linked to stick position rather than the value of the THR channel...but it just starts...never waits for anything...all the time. So I have defaulted to resetting it when I start, and running a straight 4 minutes until I have time to figure this out.

But the rest works great. I love the flexibility in the modes, using switches to adjust DR a bit, etc....

obi

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Obijuan Kenobe

Yes.

I am also having trouble with a few details of the tutorial.

Specifically, my timer is not starting as expected. Not only does it seem to be only linked to stick position rather than the value of the THR channel...but it just starts...never waits for anything...all the time. So I have defaulted to resetting it when I start, and running a straight 4 minutes until I have time to figure this out.

But the rest works great. I love the flexibility in the modes, using switches to adjust DR a bit, etc....

obi

If following the tutorial (Beginners Taranis programming guide for RC helis.), timer should be off CST, not off Throttle.

CST is a custom switch set to be enabled if CH01 output is > -50 (25% throttle).

If you do it off throttle, then that's the throttle stick position (not the throttle value).


Hope this helps.

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

If following the tutorial (Beginners Taranis programming guide for RC helis.), timer should be off CST, not off Throttle.

CST is a custom switch set to be enabled if CH01 output is > -50 (25% throttle).

If you do it off throttle, then that's the throttle stick position (not the throttle value).


Hope this helps.

Yes. I did not find CH01 in that long list of possibilities for values where 'x' could be drawn. Found it, and of course it works perfectly now.

It's a dope little box. I love the fact that it seems really WAAAAAAY too much capability for a helicopter. But that only really means you can do it however you want and then some.

I was serious about the BS3SX example. I would like to have that example to look at at least. I am going to set up that FBL unit this summer on a small bird.

obi

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Obijuan Kenobe

...
I was serious about the BS3SX example. I would like to have that example to look at at least. I am going to set up that FBL unit this summer on a small bird.
...

I'm in Amsterdam at the moment (over 10,000 miles from my Taranis), however I should be able to post a BD3SX example in this thread tonight (gotta love Companion9x).

Do you want rescue on SF or SH (I have my momentary switch on SF, as it matches my DX8 with trainer/mix switch). Rescue should be on a momentary.

Do you want it with cyclic washout (centre cyclics while in rescue)?

Which switch do you want as the 3 self level positions? I usually use SC which matches the Gov switch position on the DX8 - Could just as easy move to any other 3 pos switch.

From my beginner template for the Blade 450x, it should take less than 10 mins.

[Obijuan Kenobe]

I am in Rotterdam, 24 minutes from you by train.

Next time you are coming to these parts, I would love to share a table and a beer (and/or other refreshment) with the great ArchmageAU. Already I feel I at least owe you a beer for all the assistance you have provided me.



As far as the help goes, I have a first question...did you just swap them? In other words, are you just swapping them internally and remembering that they have moved position (I assume that)?

I have begun retraining my TH to my left hand index finger, and actually at the moment I use the momentary switch also as TH as your tutorial was set up. But I am trying to combine using the SH momentary switch in anticipation of using CR here. For my imagination, I hit the momentary and think 'rescue' and as the mCPX BL spins down, I then hit SF and think 'hold'. I like this because it feels like it is setting up the right sequence in my head/fingers for the good use of CR without forgetting that TH needs to remain a solid available option as well.

It feels like SG would be my switch for the self level positions. Do you also use a three position switch(es) to adjust any of the tail/gyro settings?

Thanks for all your help!

jay

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Obijuan Kenobe

...
As far as the help goes, I have a first question...did you just swap them? In other words, are you just swapping them internally and remembering that they have moved position (I assume that)?

Opened the TX, unplugged SF and SH from their connectors, swapped (so SH permanent, SF momentary), closed TX. Works perfectly.

Cannot use SH(down)short and SH(down)long, but don't need to use those anyway.

When I get home I'll have to photograph / video the change.

Originally Posted by Obijuan Kenobe

...
I have begun retraining my TH to my left hand index finger, and actually at the moment I use the momentary switch also as TH as your tutorial was set up. But I am trying to combine using the SH momentary switch in anticipation of using CR here. For my imagination, I hit the momentary and think 'rescue' and as the mCPX BL spins down, I then hit SF and think 'hold'. I like this because it feels like it is setting up the right sequence in my head/fingers for the good use of CR without forgetting that TH needs to remain a solid available option as well.

It feels like SG would be my switch for the self level positions. Do you also use a three position switch(es) to adjust any of the tail/gyro settings?

As I switch between DX8 and Taranis, I wanted the switch positions the same. Worse comes to worse, I'll recompile the OpenTX firmware to have a SF(down)short and SF(down)long if I desperately need them.

I use SC or SD for 3 pos level and SB for 3 pos gyro (and SG for 3 pos DR).

[JustPlaneChris]

It's also possible to swap two wires in one of the connector blocks if you want to get your SF functions back. Here's a post:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=279

For sanity, you'll also want to swap the switch labels.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by JustPlaneChris

It's also possible to swap two wires in one of the connector blocks if you want to get your SF functions back. Here's a post:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=279

For sanity, you'll also want to swap the switch labels.

Thanks for that. I'll keep that for reference if I need it. (can't do much from here ).

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Obijuan Kenobe

...
I was serious about the BS3SX example. I would like to have that example to look at at least. I am going to set up that FBL unit this summer on a small bird.
...

Done.

• Based on template from guide (Spek channel layout)
• SF is hold
• SH is rescue
• SD is SL modes
• Cyclic override done
• Channel 7 is 3SX head gain channel

Had to disable the SH hold functionality.

(as normal, rename the .eepe.txt to .eepe to load in Companion9X).

[MyRCode]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Please do not use this model. It took a while to correct it for another member last night. (Tying to get a TRex150 working). This model has a few "gotcha's". (like AutoHold and timer not working properly). Using Hold as a separate flight mode between Normal and UI1 is also a problem.

DO NOT blindly use a model you do not understand. It may do things you do not expect.

Maybe I need to post a BD3SX rescue model. (with explanation as to how I do it).

Could you explain how hold in this model is a problem? I think that was my upload from rc settings

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by MyRCode

Could you explain how hold in this model is a problem? I think that was my upload from rc settings

In this model, hold is set at FM1 (SFdown), UI1 and FM2(SE-), UI2 as FM3(SEdown) and normal is (normal).

Due to the orders of precedence, the hold function does work while SF is down, however, hold can only ever be activated by the one switch (unless another custom switch is used and substituted for FM1).

Ideally hold is not a flight mode. It is an override you want instantly on or off. If your other flight modes have delays or smooth transitions, moving out of throttle hold may not be as quick as anticipated.

Try this one:
- TX on (switches in enforced positions - Hold on, normal mode A, B, C, D in middle). Throttle stick middle.
- Turn off throttle hold (ch3 stays -100). Nice safety feature, but not as one would expect.
- Lower throttle stick to 0 (ch3 goes to 0 - as per normal curve).
- Engage throttle hold (ch3 stays at 0 , motor will not cut!)

(This is all in Companion9X emulation as I am still a distance away from my Taranis to try it on the TX itself - Same result on the Taranis as Companion9X).

The ch10 with CSB/CSC switches are just bad news.

Timer will stop if hard negative collective. Timer will not stop with throttle hold engaged.

If you have a list of what you want the model to do, I'll gladly make it a) less confusing and b) work in all circumstances. Many years of IT development. I am a strong believer in making programs as bullet proof as possible.

[MyRCode]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

In this model, hold is set at FM1 (SFdown), UI1 and FM2(SE-), UI2 as FM3(SEdown) and normal is (normal).

Due to the orders of precedence, the hold function does work while SF is down, however, hold can only ever be activated by the one switch (unless another custom switch is used and substituted for FM1).

Ideally hold is not a flight mode. It is an override you want instantly on or off. If your other flight modes have delays or smooth transitions, moving out of throttle hold may not be as quick as anticipated.

Try this one:
- TX on (switches in enforced positions - Hold on, normal mode A, B, C, D in middle). Throttle stick middle.
- Turn off throttle hold (ch3 stays -100). Nice safety feature, but not as one would expect.
- Lower throttle stick to 0 (ch3 goes to 0 - as per normal curve).
- Engage throttle hold (ch3 stays at 0 , motor will not cut!)

(This is all in Companion9X emulation as I am still a distance away from my Taranis to try it on the TX itself - Same result on the Taranis as Companion9X).

The ch10 with CSB/CSC switches are just bad news.

Timer will stop if hard negative collective. Timer will not stop with throttle hold engaged.

If you have a list of what you want the model to do, I'll gladly make it a) less confusing and b) work in all circumstances. Many years of IT development. I am a strong believer in making programs as bullet proof as possible.

Thanks…I’m going to try setting up a new model from scratch re-assigned the flight modes correctly also. This is what I’m trying to do…
Futaba Channel Order

SF down (throttle hold)
SF – (IU1)
SF + (IU 2)
No normal mode

SA UP – Play value for VFas
SA – Play value for RSSI
SA – Play value for CNSP

SB UP (low rudder expo)
SB – (normal rudder expo)
SB DOWN (High rudder expo)

SC UP (low elevator expo)
SC – (middle elevator expo)
SC DOWN (high elevator high expo)

SD UP (low aileron expo)
SD – (middle aileron expo)
SD DOWN (high aileron high expo)

S1 Knob – Head Gain / BD3SX self-level adjustment
S2 Knob – Tail Gain Adjustment

SH – Captain Rescue

Left slider – Volume control
Right slider – nothing assigned to it yet

Timer to start when greater than 25% throttle and throttle hold is off
Single beep at mid stick
Audio call out when S1 knob and S2 knobs are centered
When throttle hold is flipped off, audio file to play once to remind me to center knobs
Audio call out when temelemtry mAh surpasses 1040 mAmps
Audio call out when telemetry voltage drops below 19.8V

[MyRCode]

I haven't actually held my transmitter in almost a month. Just recently moved out of state and haven't been flying at all. I think that's what I was doing based on me opening up my EEPROM in C9X.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by MyRCode

Thanks…I’m going to try setting up a new model from scratch re-assigned the flight modes correctly also. This is what I’m trying to do…
Futaba Channel Order

SF down (throttle hold)
SF – (IU1)
SF + (IU 2)
No normal mode

SA UP – Play value for VFas
SA – Play value for RSSI
SA – Play value for CNSP

SB UP (low rudder expo)
SB – (normal rudder expo)
SB DOWN (High rudder expo)

SC UP (low elevator expo)
SC – (middle elevator expo)
SC DOWN (high elevator high expo)

SD UP (low aileron expo)
SD – (middle aileron expo)
SD DOWN (high aileron high expo)

S1 Knob – Head Gain / BD3SX self-level adjustment
S2 Knob – Tail Gain Adjustment

SH – Captain Rescue

Left slider – Volume control
Right slider – nothing assigned to it yet

Timer to start when greater than 25% throttle and throttle hold is off
Single beep at mid stick
Audio call out when S1 knob and S2 knobs are centered
When throttle hold is flipped off, audio file to play once to remind me to center knobs
Audio call out when temelemtry mAh surpasses 1040 mAmps
Audio call out when telemetry voltage drops below 19.8V

The attached .eepe should do it.

PM or post to thread if any questions.

(This was done from your original .eepe. I could have done it from my template in the guide, but I thought you would like to keep your calibration ).

btw, the safety feature of not allowing throttle to work until -100 on throttle stick AND hold on is one of the few functions I cannot program reliably to reset only on each transmitter power cycle. (so I disabled it for the model). If you have a brownout on the TX with a loose power connection or iffy battery, you probably do not want this anyway (as mid air while falling you must TH, lower throttle to -100, raise throttle stick and unhold). This is also why I do not have switch start position warnings.

[MyRCode]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

The attached .eepe should do it.

PM or post to thread if any questions.

(This was done from your original .eepe. I could have done it from my template in the guide, but I thought you would like to keep your calibration ).

btw, the safety feature of not allowing throttle to work until -100 on throttle stick AND hold on is one of the few functions I cannot program reliably to reset only on each transmitter power cycle. (so I disabled it for the model). If you have a brownout on the TX with a loose power connection or iffy battery, you probably do not want this anyway (as mid air while falling you must TH, lower throttle to -100, raise throttle stick and unhold). This is also why I do not have switch start position warnings.

Thanks for doing that Archmage. I just got a chance to look at it this morning. It's much cleaner than what I had before.

I had a question about the Tail Gain / Head Gain adjustments. On my old EEPE I had tail gain set to Curve 16. Curve 16 I set to a flat and normally wouldn't touch it. On the new EEPE you set up, how is the initial tail gain value set?