Co-pilot II performance change. Is it the trees?

[Crash2much]

Hi all, I posted my first experience with the CP 2 here and as you can tell from my response, (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=407953) it worked great out of the box. Today was my first time flying since then, I had to replace the swashplate on my Trex 500. There wasn't a crash but, one on the ball links was loose and had broken inside the swash when I tried to remove it.
So what changed? I replaced the swashplate with a new align. There is a little bit of play between the upper and lower plates on this new model. I don't think there was any play on the old one..I'll check later. A few ball links were very loose, too loose for comfort, so I swapped them out with new. I had standard align CF blades on my FBL head. I picked up a set of 3g CF blades to test the difference. If this is it I like the standard ones. That's what I flew with today. Also, since I flew, the leaves have filled in nicely at the park. I fly in an area the size of a football field surrounded by mature trees.
Now , to get to the way the CP 2 responded. I was kind of fighting it actually. Sometimes it would tend to drift forward, sometimes backward, right left etc. Other times it would level nicely. It changed with direction the heli was headed. It felt kind of unnerving at times. I'm flying with the switch off and auto at 6. It just seemed it took way to long to level when I would let go of the sticks.
The little bit of play in the swash might be undesirable however, I don't think that is it.
Do you think the trees filling in would do this? I'm flying in a large box.

Thanks

[nightflyr]

Depending on how far the tree line is it may cause the CPII to react

[Crash2much]

Nightflyr, first thanks for all of the info you posted to make this a whole lot easier for us. I was about 80 feet or so to the trees I guess on one side, a little further on the other. On one side the trees are pines, I swear the heli would bob as if it were reading the tops.
My first couple of outings was nice and smooth like in your extensive test video.
I have a couple of questions for you nightflyr:

1)-When my heli corrects it takes a long time maybe 4 to five seconds. That means it could be easily end up in the trees before it levels out. Does dual rates and expos contribute to this? Mine is at 80 and +30 for both ele and ail. I still need these settings to fly as I'm fairly new. However, I think it's time to change it to somewhat more aggressive. Or is it slow to react because it is fbl?

2)-Does the Cyclic pitch(not regular pitch)settings play a role as well? Mine is at 7+ and -.
3)-If I switch my gear switch off, I know the CP is still active because my auto is at 6. If I were to set my auto to 0, is it completely off? Or are the angles settings still affecting my 3G system? Not auto level, but from a trim perspective since all wiring goes through the CP 2??

Thanks for your help

[Crash2much]

Nightflyr, while I'm in a thinking mode. In your setup sticky you say,

"Auto trim is expressed in degrees. Default value is 6 degrees. If using Auto trim, trim the model out with CPII switched OFF. Then turn CPII ON and re-trim the model again for level flight. When you turn CPII OFF again, trim should not change. If it does, increase the Auto trim value. If it still does not hold same trim with CPII ON vs. OFF, then you will need to either alter the install angle of the main sensor (tilt it slightly), or use set angles to trim CPII."

My heli is a fbl.With a 3G system I can't use trims.I can use angles. When you say off, do you mean click the gear switch up and bring the auto to 0 or is switched up fine? I have a DX6i.
This is what I do.
-Gear switch up leave auto at 6
-go into angles and do the trial error until minimal drifting
-then fly in that mode

Thanks

[nightflyr]

Nightflyr, first thanks for all of the info you posted to make this a whole lot easier for us. I was about 80 feet or so to the trees I guess on one side, a little further on the other. On one side the trees are pines, I swear the heli would bob as if it were reading the tops.
The trees at that distance could well be causing the issues.

My first couple of outings was nice and smooth like in your extensive test video.
I have a couple of questions for you nightflyr:

1)-When my heli corrects it takes a long time maybe 4 to five seconds. That means it could be easily end up in the trees before it levels out. Does dual rates and expos contribute to this? Mine is at 80 and +30 for both ele and ail. I still need these settings to fly as I'm fairly new. However, I think it's time to change it to somewhat more aggressive. Or is it slow to react because it is fbl?

The slower reaction time is due to the FBL and CPII being together, D/R & Expo aren't the cause.
You can try to increase the gains on the CPII and see if that speeds things up, also you can try to increase the endpoint travels for Ail, ELV and Pitch in your Tx

2)-Does the Cyclic pitch(not regular pitch)settings play a role as well? Mine is at 7+ and -.
+ / - 7 degrees is quite sedate, might try + / - 9

3)-If I switch my gear switch off, I know the CP is still active because my auto is at 6. If I were to set my auto to 0, is it completely off? Or are the angles settings still affecting my 3G system? Not auto level, but from a trim perspective since all wiring goes through the CP 2??

With autotrim @ 0 CPII wil be off completely with no input to the helicopter at all

Thanks for your help
[QUOTE=Crash2much;3927885]Nightflyr, while I'm in a thinking mode. In your setup sticky you say,

"Auto trim is expressed in degrees. Default value is 6 degrees. If using Auto trim, trim the model out with CPII switched OFF. Then turn CPII ON and re-trim the model again for level flight. When you turn CPII OFF again, trim should not change. If it does, increase the Auto trim value. If it still does not hold same trim with CPII ON vs. OFF, then you will need to either alter the install angle of the main sensor (tilt it slightly), or use set angles to trim CPII."

My heli is a fbl.With a 3G system I can't use trims.I can use angles. When you say off, do you mean click the gear switch up and bring the auto to 0 or is switched up fine? I have a DX6i.
This is what I do.
-Gear switch up leave auto at 6
-go into angles and do the trial error until minimal drifting
-then fly in that mode

Thanks

Set the Autotrim to 0 and use flight angles

[Crash2much]

Nightflyr, thank you for your thoughtful response. One final question for you Nightflyr or anyone who would care to answer. What is the difference between the "off " setting on the gear switch with auto set at 6 and the "on" position with the default settings? Sure doesn't feel the same. There must be higher or lower gains??, stick priority etc. added to the equation.

What I would like to accomplish with CP 2 is, to setup the "off" mode to be completely off..no auto. Then, I would like to tweak the settings in the "on" mode to react exactly like the "off" mode with the auto at 6. I'm sure this can be done with lots of trial and error. This way I can use it as a safety net for level only and then fly it before it hits the trees.

Ultimately, I want to add a switch on the side for activation...it seems like it takes me too long to find and flip the gear switch.

Thanks
I'm not crashing

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by Crash2much

Nightflyr, thank you for your thoughtful response. One final question for you Nightflyr or anyone who would care to answer. What is the difference between the "off " setting on the gear switch with auto set at 6 and the "on" position with the default settings? Sure doesn't feel the same. There must be higher or lower gains??, stick priority etc. added to the equation.

What I would like to accomplish with CP 2 is, to setup the "off" mode to be completely off..no auto. Then, I would like to tweak the settings in the "on" mode to react exactly like the "off" mode with the auto at 6. I'm sure this can be done with lots of trial and error. This way I can use it as a safety net for level only and then fly it before it hits the trees.

Ultimately, I want to add a switch on the side for activation...it seems like it takes me too long to find and flip the gear switch.

Thanks
I'm not crashing

With auto trim set @ default 6 even with the CPII switch off it isn't completely off the system will be partially operational in maintaining level flight.
Being your using it with an FBL controller you want to have the autotrim @ 0 and use the flight angles to adjust for level flight.
As to adding a switch, I posted a mod on how to add a momentary switch to a DX7.

[Crash2much]

Yes, but like you say switch off (up) and auto set to zero then it's all me flying. I would like to tweak the on mode (switch down), to react like the like the off mode plus the auto at 6. I hope I'm making sense here.
I find the switch on mode (Down) at defaults, allows very little control by stick inputs. I remember watching a mod video somewhere with a push button switch in parallel with the gear switch. I'll search it.

Thanks

[nightflyr]

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=396793

[Crash2much]

Hi Nightflyr, just a follow up to my original question regarding the trees. Yes the trees make a difference. I had the heli out out to a wide open farm land and wow! It was extremely stable. Co-pilot is now out of the way. Now to sort out the small 3g glitches..