Hard to turn cw.tail does not counteract correctly

[glupsnif]

Hi. I have an msh protos 500 carbon streched kit with msh brain. And i am having a hard time to setup tail.
My setup is:
430 blades
Savox 1290 tail servo with 13.5 mm tail servo arm length
Main Blades are spinning cw as state in the manual

When i am hoovering there is no problem for turning cw or ccw it does it correct to both sides.

But when i do ffw flight the heli does turn ccw with no problems but it is hard to turn cw. If i fly fast enought it even does not turn cw no matter how hard i push the stick to the right.
Also when i do tic tocs the heli tends to fall ccw.
Even more when i try to turn slowly ccw when i am flying left circle in order to change from forward to backward flight some time the tail does not hold and does a fast ccw turn overreacting to my stick inputs.
It seems like the tail has a hard time to counteract the the naural tend of the heli to rotate ccw.

The tail servo arm is 90° poisition with tail blades in neutral position. And the travel is similar to both sides,
What i am doing wrong.???
Thanks

[HarryR]

Originally Posted by glupsnif

Hi. I have an msh protos 500 carbon streched kit with msh brain. And i am having a hard time to setup tail.
My setup is:
430 blades
Savox 1290 tail servo with 13.5 mm tail servo arm length
Main Blades are spinning cw as state in the manual

When i am hoovering there is no problem for turning cw or ccw it does it correct to both sides.

But when i do ffw flight the heli does turn ccw with no problems but it is hard to turn cw. If i fly fast enought it even does not turn cw no matter how hard i push the stick to the right.
Also when i do tic tocs the heli tends to fall ccw.
Even more when i try to turn slowly ccw when i am flying left circle in order to change from forward to backward flight some time the tail does not hold and does a fast ccw turn overreacting to my stick inputs.
It seems like the tail has a hard time to counteract the the naural tend of the heli to rotate ccw.

The tail servo arm is 90° poisition with tail blades in neutral position. And the travel is similar to both sides,
What i am doing wrong.???
Thanks

I assume you do not have ANY TRIM or SUB TRIM in the TX ?? And that your tail rotor is set correctly with CCW rotation and tail blades with leading edge on the front of the tail blade.Please check.. I know it sounds basic but the heli won't fly too well with these things incorrectly assembled... but it ( might) will fly !!

[dr dremel]

With the arm @90deg the tail blades should have a bit pitch against the main rotor torque. You set this up with a trim flight in rate mode, adjusting the tail control rod or the servo position on the boom so that you do not have the heli turning in either direction. Granted, this is "by the book", and FBL systems do not depend on this as much anymore.

But as Harry said, I´d check the mechanical setup, everything should move smooth as butter. If ok, try a bench test (without main blades). Disconnect the tail control rod, spool the heli up and try moving the rod by hand to look for increased resistance while moving. I´d check this first without tail blades, then with. But be VERY CAREFUL, a spooled up 500 tail can be dangerous. I have a friend on the TH switch when doing this.

[glupsnif]

Hi. Yes, tail is setup correctly.tail blades spin ccw as state in the manual. With round edge in front and square edge back with respect of the movement. No trim in the tx.
It has to be another thing
Thanks for your rapid response

[glupsnif]

Thanks. I will try to give a bit of pitch to blades at 90° of tail servo arm.i will check again for smothness of the tail mechanism. I hope this helps. If you figure out something else please let me know.
Thanks again

[HarryR]

Did you modify from normal to stretch or did you buy it as a stretch? Did you build it. Did it EVER fly well? Did you make any changes to anything ?? Any after market pieces that you added or replaced?? Is the MSH Brain new ? Did you have it on another heli ? If so did it work correctly?/
I typically look at the changes I made since the last time I KNOW it flew correctly.?

[dr dremel]

One thing I had recently was that the tail hub was not completely screwed down and turning on the tail shaft in hard maneuvers. Not sure if this applies here, but easy enough to check.

[glupsnif]

Hi
I got the original and new strechted carbon kit with esc motor and brain. And i built it myself. Everything works perfect except this tail behaviour. I have never been happy with the tail so i upgraded to the 3k tail blades and aluminium tail gear all original from msh. Never crashed.

[Oldmustang]

the BEST thing i ever did for either of my Protos 500 was a big ass tail servo- best flying is a Futaba BLS 451. the other has a Savox 1357 but the 451 definitely has better tail authority

[glupsnif]

If i don`t get it right after mechanical revision. I think i would rather sell the flybarless unit and get another, before than my tail servo. I have read more tail issues from msh brain than from savox 1290.
Anyway i got your advice for the future.
Thanks.

[glupsnif]

I did the following changes:
- disassamble the tail and clean and oil all the componentes
- change the pitch leveler and slider to aluminium upgrades
- resize servolink holes and oil them
- GIve a little positive pitch to tail blades at 90° servo arms.
- while reassambleling check at every step the smoothness of blades movements

The tail ended up with very smooth movements without free play.
TAIL IS PERFECT NOW!!!!!
All it was the sum of mechanical imperfections.
Thank for all the advices.

[glupsnif]

I did the following changes:
- disassamble the tail and clean and oil all the componentes
- change the pitch leveler and slider to aluminium upgrades
- resize servolink holes and oil them
- GIve a little positive pitch to tail blades at 90° servo arms.
- while reassambleling check at every step the smoothness of blades movements

The tail ended up with very smooth movements without free play.
TAIL IS PERFECT NOW!!!!!
All it was the sum of mechanical imperfections.
Thank for all the advices.

[HarryR]

Originally Posted by glupsnif

I did the following changes:
- disassamble the tail and clean and oil all the componentes
- change the pitch leveler and slider to aluminium upgrades
- resize servolink holes and oil them
- GIve a little positive pitch to tail blades at 90° servo arms.
- while reassambleling check at every step the smoothness of blades movements

The tail ended up with very smooth movements without free play.
TAIL IS PERFECT NOW!!!!!
All it was the sum of mechanical imperfections.
Thank for all the advices.

Those that seem to know tell me that is is almost at always a mechanical issue. Glad you found it. I had one of those recently. you can read the thread.. It was just a wrong size ball on the tail servo that gave " just enough" resistance that the tail had a wag.. Took me 2 weeks to figure this out :-(