Problems found in maiden flight of LOGO 800

[faisalmalik]

Hi all
Did my maiden flight of 800 and found following problems.

a. At stunt II, while trying to do some tick tocs, the heli head speed bogs down to almost bottom limit and goes back to normal once out of maneuver.
b. Tail wags a lot once recovering from maneuver.
c. Tried to change the batteries to see if its the battery issue but same thing happened with the other pack. I am using two 6S and one 2S combination for the time being till my 7s packs arrive.

My present setup and settings are
Electronics setup includes
1. YGE 200hv, stock motor, 19t pinion with vbar silver line. These electronics purchased separately. Vbar firmware has been upgraded to XXtreme version from vstabi.
2. Using Vbar gov
Following Settings changed recently to rectify the above. Not flown yet
YGE Settings
a. Free wheeling put off as I thought it might interfere with vbar
gov.
b. Motor timing 18 (No change)
c. Gov off
d. P and I gain off
e. Start up speed is Heli Middle (No change)
f. Start up power is 2% No change
g. PWM is 8 kHz
Vbar Settings
a. Pitch was 12.5 positive and 11.4 negative. Reduced to 11.4 positive and 11.2 negative
b. Max head speed 1858
c. Tail gain was 60. Now increased to 80
d. Agility increased from 100 to 110

My Thoughts about the problem
a. May be due to increase pitch, the motor bogged badly while trying to do tic tocs and also wagged so I decreased the pitch as above.
b. Could be the less tail gain
c. Most unlikely the battery setup may be a problem.
d. Should I try YGE governor ? is it better than vbar gov?
c. Should the free wheeling be off ? Is it possible that it interferes with the functioning of vbar governor?
e. Any guide line on motor timings. YGE Manual says to keep minimum 18 for out runner motors.
f. Although I calibrated throttle end points on ESC prog card. But is it necessary to do this calibration if not using YGE governor? Because we have calibrated the end points of Tx in vstabi menu. and this calibration should be good for vbar governor ? Thoughts?
A thoughtful answer would change my decision to sell it out

Thanks

[ah_liang]

I followed the videos on the vstabi website/forum while setting up the esc with proj card with exactly same settings. I am thinking if u should not have done anything if your firmware is mikado ver.

[faisalmalik]

Got an answer for this from Mikado and Mr Mel. Here is it
"VBar Firmware = only difference is for mass of the heli as the XX is slower turning mass, the firmware optimize for that size, you can fly with the regular but smaller window of opportunity for servos etc"

So in this case we can set the parameters as per the choice.

[faisalmalik]

Still looking for the answers guys. Please help out

[rcmarty]

Have you checked the vbar log for errors ?

I'm guessing a governor sensor issue. I had my gov wire plugged in backwards ( no reading to vbar) and the heli would bog real bad. A simple flip was scary low on headspeed. Once I checked the log it was full of gov sensor errors.

What condition and C rated are the batteries ? I run GA 5000 45'c packs and there good.

Stock pinion is a 18T I recall , shouldn't be too much of an issue really.

Freewheeling should be on , this allows the esc to run a low throttle curve without heating up. Being your running a 19T the curve will be a little lower and freewheeling will be good to have.

Tail should be smooth as silk. Although a bit rare the XX series tail if it wags might be a few things. (other than a mechanical / gain setting )

- flashing in side the grips interfering with the bearings/thrust bearings.
- check grips carefully for flashing and overall fit and lubed bearings
- Slight binding of the tail slider to the tail grips.
- Take control rod off , then slide the tail slider , should feel nothing.
if there's a slight drag , take one of the bolts out of the grip and retest.
If it's smoother get a small thin washer and put under ball before the grip and
retest.

Vbar gov (proavtive) will outperform the YGE (reactive) gov.

What is the setup ? radio , etc

Martin

[rcmarty]

I'm running 1850 rpm on 11.5 pitch on gens ace and thor 14s 5000 45's packs doing 3d (harder in the first 2 mins and less later on) and big air 3d for 4:30 timer.

Not sure what other heli's you've had in the past but the 800 is a light disk loaded heli . It doesn't take brute force (rpm and pitch) to make it move.

I found this out years ago with my first logo 600se (even lighter loaded heli) running 2000 rpm at 13 degrees. Hard to fly machine , once I dropped the hs and pitch it was soo much better.

I was brought up on align heli's. On a 600 you'd get a head wobble much below 2000 , 3d performance out of the question. With less than 14 degrees pitch it would be nothing short of a hover queen.

Martin

[stevo6mm]

Originally Posted by rcmarty

Have you checked the vbar log for errors ?

I'm guessing a governor sensor issue. I had my gov wire plugged in backwards ( no reading to vbar) and the heli would bog real bad. A simple flip was scary low on headspeed. Once I checked the log it was full of gov sensor errors.

What condition and C rated are the batteries ? I run GA 5000 45'c packs and there good.

Stock pinion is a 18T I recall , shouldn't be too much of an issue really.

Freewheeling should be on , this allows the esc to run a low throttle curve without heating up. Being your running a 19T the curve will be a little lower and freewheeling will be good to have.

Tail should be smooth as silk. Although a bit rare the XX series tail if it wags might be a few things. (other than a mechanical / gain setting )

- flashing in side the grips interfering with the bearings/thrust bearings.
- check grips carefully for flashing and overall fit and lubed bearings
- Slight binding of the tail slider to the tail grips.
- Take control rod off , then slide the tail slider , should feel nothing.
if there's a slight drag , take one of the bolts out of the grip and retest.
If it's smoother get a small thin washer and put under ball before the grip and
retest.

Vbar gov (proavtive) will outperform the YGE (reactive) gov.

What is the setup ? radio , etc

Martin

+1 on the tail issues. See this thread. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=639655

Steve

[Raptorapture]

+1 on freewheeling, wouldn't turn that off. Are you able to confirm rpm achieved in flight?

[faisalmalik]

First special thanks to rcmarty for a detailed but precise answer. I'll try to reply pointwise
1. The log indicates all ok except one odd entry showing vib, which is probably because of what I explained earlier. I'll try and post the log if required.
2. As said earlier. To make it 14s I'm using 2xGens ace 5000 65c 6s with one 2s Gens ace of same configuration (carved out of another same type of battery). Cells have no problems)
3. Tested and found No problem with tail slider and grip.
4. JR 28x.
5. As earlier in my post, I've reduced the pitch from 13 positive and 11.5 negative to 11.5 both now.
6. Put off the free wheeling. But in light of your suggestion, I'll again put it on
7. No flight done after settings as I was waiting for your replys

[rcmarty]

I have 3 of the mikado yge's on my big stuff.

My logo 600 im running a yge software version. I think I got it right but I still have a big kick on startup.

here's the thread on the setup . credit to newbheliuser for the how to.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=701533

After reading it over again I'm going to double check the 'series of tones' thing after gov x 3 button presses.

Might be worth checking on your setup also.

The oem's are truly plug and play in true Mikado fashion.

Martin