New Belt CPX mixed swash movement

[cofl1001]

Hello,
I just got my heli recently and I was trying hovering at home, but I noticed when I push the forward stick it has a mixed movement forward+left, and when I push back on the TX the swash moves back+right. I don't think this is normal since it mixes two different movements. Is it a TX issue or a swash issue? I uploaded the youtube video so that you can clearly understand what I explained. Also I took some close-up pictures to see if the servo arms sit at 90 degrees or not?
Any input is appreciated
I put imageshack and youtube links but they are missing ?
[ame]http://youtu.be/fTjNm4GXLB8[/ame]
http://imageshack.us/a/img198/2994/p9308905.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img27/8075/p9308903.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img39/8702/p9308902.jpg

[dayshaddow]

my guess would be a swash mix problem if your using a comp tx. disconnect the main motor to make it safe, now head into your swash mix part of your radio and swictch the setting from + to - till you get the correct movement. i use the trottle to help me as when its increased all three servos should rise.once all rise you should easily get things right

come back if its not the case

[dayshaddow]

oh and at midstick all three servos should be at 90 deg's. but get the swash mix sorted first then we can move on to the servos's

[dayshaddow]

please i mean no offence..but out side is best with lots of room i know you may have seen dumb vids of me flying in a small space BUT that is just me being very reckless as all will agree

the head speeds on a cp heli are very high and even a very light wooden blade will carry enough momention on impact to dish out some damage to you or your house. i dont have a calculator to hand but i wouldnt be suprised at the tip of one of those blades to be carrying somthing 100kgs per sq inc

please be safe and a good 10ft away from those spinning blades min

[Luke Warmwater]

I see it is an Esky Tx, so the opportunities for fine tuning are limited.

The servos are about as close to 90 degs as you are goingf to get on a stock Tx, but they are slightly out and I see the elevator is slightly out below the horizontal and the aileron slightly out above the horizontal. It is always best to set them slightly out the same way; ie all above or all below the horozontal, although it does of course depend on how ar out the are!

I have no idea how, or even if, you can play with the mix on the stock Tx. The first thing to do is to disconnect the motor wires from the ESC, as DS suggested. This means you can get close to the heli....and more importantly, it is SAFE. You don't want the risk of it spinning up when you are working on it, and to do any set-up, you need the servos powered up!

Once you have disconnected this, power it up and move the throttle. Do all three servos move up to raise the swash? If so, your swash mix is OK. Next, check which direction they move in when you move the cyclic stick (the right hand stick). This looks like the problem and it oculd be that your servos are connected to the wrong ports on the Rx. Moving the cuclic forward should move the back of the swash up and the front down. Moving the stick back is the opposite. Move if left and the left aileron should drop and the right raise; moving it right is the opposite.

You really do need to then go through the setup stickies at the top of the forum. All there and I guarantee your heli WILL need setting up. Ready To Fly simply means all the parts needed to get in the air are supplied. They are NOT set up and without set up, your heli will not fly!.

And I really must re-iterate, the space you are in is too small. It is fine for set up, without the rotors turning, but once the motor is powered up, you need more space. Helis are both capable and likely to cause a lot of damage and injury used in a living area!

(Typing as you posted DS! )

[dayshaddow]

hi luke the vids and pic's appared after my post esky has dip switched in the battery comp..perhaps someone used a stock esk tx for a sim at some point hence the mix being out anyway im out flying so i will it to you sir luke

[sutty]

Stock Tx, DS, so no mix. However, my experience of low quality ccpm heads, i.e. the Belt, is that you automatically get interactions like that, particularly when at low RPM, and high values of throw. I have seen it on mine many times, and had no problem flying it. Probably down to there being a lot of plastic components that can bend. You can hear the load in the head, and on the motor as it starts to bog the motor. I suspect you will be able to fly that absolutely no problem, as at higher headpseed it will not be as bad. Not to mention that if you apply so much throw in real life, when flying, you are going to be doing an on the spot flip. By the time you can do that, you will have the skill to put in a little correction anyway.

Check what it does at low amounts of throw, which is where you will spend your first few months of flying anyway. If you can make it tilt forward, backwards, left and right, then you will be fine. If there are problems at high throw, this will still not be a major issue, because by the time you want to put your sticks there you will have outgrown the Belt. The issue will be less apparent anyway because by then you will be running a higher headspeed in idle up, and it just doesn't seem to happen.

As it happens, you are never not flying the heli in all directions anyway, and in no time at all, the small amount of right that you need to put in to correct that whilst going forward, or backwards as fast as you were demonstrating, would soon be completely lost. Don't forget, even for a simple hover, you need to hold in a considerable amount of right stick, just to keep it from drifting left as a result of the thrust from the tail rotor.

You're not perfect on those servos, but you are limited with what can be done. It sure looks near enough to be able to fly. If you want it perfect, then with the stock Tx you are really limited as to what you can do. However, your swash does look nice and level, so for normal hovering and slow FFF, if you can tell/feel that error I would be surprised.

By the way, since you are now concerning yourself with the swash, are we to assume that your tail issue is resolved? If not, I agree with the last two comments in that thread. Looks normal, trim it out mechanically in rate mode, and then select HH mode, and it should hold. By mechanical correction, I mean move your servo on the boom, until the correct amount of anti torque pitch is applied. I think this was mentioned. Incorrect gyro setting would look like a runaway spin doing a full turn per second. Very scary, but easy to sort out. The easy way to check your tail is to do this.

Apply right rudder, this should make the nose go right, and therefore the tail go left. To get the tail to go left, you need more pitch on the blades and more thrust out to the right. Since they spin anticlockwise, and are on the right side of the heli, putting more pitch on the blades should mean the leading edge of the tail blades go nearer the boom. So, apply full right, and the leading edge of the tail blades should move to the boom. If this happens then the rudder direction is correct.

Now that you know that right rudder increases the pitch on the blades by making the leading edge go nearer the boom you can also imagine that this will be the effect when the heli drifts nose left, as you would want the gyro to put in an automatic correction for nose right, or right turn. So to check gyro correction, swing the heli around by hand, quickly nose left, and the tail will obviously go right. To stop the tail going right, more thrust out to the right must be provided, and again this will mean that the leading edge of the tail blades will move towards the boom, just like for a right turn, but this time it will be applied by the gyro, to compensate for the nose left drift, that would otherwise have occured.

Cheers

Sutty

[FlightTime500]

Thanks for posting the video for making it much easier for us to see and the other replies the other guys have posted are right, just one thing if you had a DX6I but if you have a stock transmitter you might have to reverse the servos on the bottom of your transmitter where it should say ail,rudder,throttle,elevator, and play with those and you should get it up and flying. And also make sure your servos arm or exactly the same ones or when you get to a certain throttle point at half stick your servos are going to tilt to a side making it roll or even tip back or forward. I one had one of these helicopter and about a week ago I had a friend /pro come over and help me set it up and he set it up perfectly and when we went to the sticks the helicopter flipped forward on us and the head had completely ripped of . And he was really sorry so on rccanada there was a great deal on for a align trex 450 se v2 and it was for $250 and my friend helped me set it up and right now I am in progress of nose in hover !

[Luke Warmwater]

Agreed Sutty, I have seen some weird movements at full thow and low rpm.

It is difficult to see what the cyclic servos are doing exactly and at one point it did look like forward stick gave left aileron, hence my suggestion to check the movements. Disconnecting the motor will show that servos are moving correctly and that any weird effect is down to low rpms and slop / bend in the plastic.

Watching what the blade disc is doing is a little bit misleading. It looks like the blade disc moves as you move the cyclic, but in fact it doesn't, the paddles move. As I type this, it occurs to me that there will some some optical illusion of the disc moving, as pitch on the blade changes and you end up looking at the bottom of a retreating blade (viewed from behind) and the top of an advancing blade for example. That would probably give the impression of a tilted blade disc off centre....

Either way, don't go by what your disc does, go by what the servos and swash do!

[sutty]

Yes Luke, it certainly can't hurt to watch it move fully, without power to the motor.

Just in case it isn't obvious, it wasn't to me, you can disconnect the motor by pulling apart the leads between the ESC and the motor. There is a bullet connector in each lead, and it looks like a lump in the wire. It splits in the middle. Mine was so well made, that they didn't pull apart easily, and the shrink wrap matched so well that I wondered what people were on about when they said disconnect the motor.

Cheers

Sutty

[cofl1001]

Hello, and thanks a lot guys for your quick replies...
I just finished re-alligning the from side servo who's arm was not horizontal but lower then the others. I also unplugged the motor and tried to move the stick, it looks normal, I mean no combined moves like front+left or back+right like in the video. Anyway on the front servo when I move aileron up/down it makes a strange squik like it would be under some pressure? apart from the normal moving sound all servos make. All seems ok on it. Maybe there's some servo issue from the factory since I got the heli only couple of days ago and I never flew it yet, just kamikaze living room spin-ups
Also I improvised a tool to check the swash allignment and after this "operation" it seems more horizontal.since it''s midnight already I will try to see if I have any kind of improvement with this or not, and keep you informed.
Thanks a lot again

[Luke Warmwater]

Originally Posted by sutty

Mine was so well made, that they didn't pull apart easily, and the shrink wrap matched so well that I wondered what people were on about when they said disconnect the motor.

Cheers

Sutty

I'd forgotten that! I spent ages looking for mine as well!!

[wulfrun]

Originally Posted by Luke Warmwater

Either way, don't go by what your disc does, go by what the servos and swash do!

+1, moving the cyclic to extremes with the heli sitting on the floor isn't the way to check. As others have said, disconnect the motor and check that the swash moves in the expected manner. If it does, it'll fly just fine. The rotor disc is trying to do contortions that it won't do if free to move and it's very misleading.

By the way, the stock setup that you have there allows too much movement and binds up the head and overloads the servos at extreme cyclic. You'll fry the servos if you keep doing that and it's far more stick movement than you're ever likely to use when flying. You can hear the extreme load slowing the motor down at times in the video. It also stresses the head parts and is likely to lead to something breaking, if the servos don't give up first.

[cofl1001]

Hello Guys, again
SInce I've been away from the heli from some time, yesterday I tried to fix my tail and after disconnecting the motor I moved the throttle stick up/down but nothing moved.
I put idle up in mode 1 and also no swash movement...
Any idea what happened ? the servos for the swashplate work so for aileron./ elevator I have no issue.
Please feel free to share your ideas.
Thanks
Florin

[copterboy]

If you have the stock TX and tried using it on a SIM program, have you been playing with the DIP switches on the TX and not reset the one for swashmixing?

Only plausible idea I can think of

[cofl1001]

Oh man, I'm such a noob
You're a genius, indeed i used it on a sim and since i just returned fron a small vacation i forgot to put the switches back.
Thanks a lot...feel much better now...
Florin

[copterboy]

Hey, I'm glad it was an easy fix

Will come back to the other thread after work, but I'm sure others can chip in during today.

[cofl1001]

Guess what I just did? OMG
I went in the underground parking where I practice my hovering, and I think I managed to adjust my tail servo so I don't have it spinning anymore. Then I keeped in a nice hover, landed, throttle to minimum(closed), then I thought: let me switch to mode 1 on my gyro, I switch it then a loud noise like something shredding plastic....
I hit the idle up...yes, I'm the biggest noob, how could I do this ???
I think that on idle up by having the throttle to minimum I had -7 degrees negative pitch pushing the heli into the ground? I guess.
Now I have to change the gear
Any guiding regarding this? Do I have to remove the main blades and open the chassis in half?
Please post any useful links regarding this since I couldn't find any clear info that I could digest...
Thanks again

[CyprusDave]

Here you go, this should help:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=68414

Title says changing main shaft, but it's actually about the main gear. It's for the older model CP, while I think you have the CPX, but should help anyway

[Luke Warmwater]

The Esky main gear is made of soft cheese! Now, I don't know about the CPX, but on the V1 and V2, the Blade 400 main gear was a direct drop in replacement and far better quality, so I'd go for that if you can!