Power loss after CPll installation

[808Hanapaa]

After I installed CPll my Trex 500 all of a sudden began to have "Low Voltage" symptoms....the heli would not be able to hover for more than 1 min and it began to pulse every few seconds after that while descending to the ground.

This is my setup:
T-Rex 500 super combo
spartan quark gyro
rce-bl70g ESC
stock servos
sky lipo 6s 3000mAh 30C
DX7
AR 7010

I checked the lipo after to see if it was discharged too far but each cell showed 4.101V. It was warm to the touch. The ESC wasn't hot either. I also tightened the belt a little.

This is my ESC settings:
Brake Disabled
Mid-timing
High cut off
Soft start
Quick Speed
BEC = 5.5V

I used this setting before installing CPll and it was fine.

Thanks

[nightflyr]

You may need a separate BEC to power the additional hardware.
The extra hardware may be pushing your internal BEC beyond its limits.

[808Hanapaa]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

You may need a separate BEC to power the additional hardware.
The extra hardware may be pushing your internal BEC beyond its limits.

Does this seems more likely the problem rather than a ESC going bad?
Should I remove CPll and see if the problem gets resolved....if it does then get a BEC?

Can you recommend a BEC? I don't know where or what to get?

Thanks
Night

[nightflyr]

I have never used a stock ALIGN ESC so I can not say if your ESC maybe failing.
You can remove the CPII and see if the problem still happens.

But in either case I might suggest either running a 6.6V LiFo pack directly or install a separate BEC.
Without knowing your budget..
CCBECPro will work fine on a 6S setup
Or a Hercules BEC

I assume your using a step down for your tail servo.

[808Hanapaa]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

But in either case I might suggest either running a 6.6V LiFo pack directly or install a separate BEC.
Without knowing your budget..
CCBECPro will work fine on a 6S setup
Or a Hercules BEC

I assume your using a step down for your tail servo.

Tail servo is connected to Quark Gyro and to Rx pack (gyro/gear).

So how do I know what size BEC to get?
Do I take all my electronics (servo/gyro/rx, etc) and add up the usage? Then match it with a BEC?
They sell meters for that also right?

I like your idea of a 6.6V LiFo pack. Seems it'll be useful during setups also.

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks again!

[nightflyr]

Either one of those BECs will work fine.
The Lifo pack if installed would be directly connected to the Rx and eliminate the need of a BEC

[808Hanapaa]

Would the CC pro 20amp BEC do the job? $38.00 new. Good deal?

[808Hanapaa]

Sorry. That's the one you recommend already right?

[nightflyr]

yes

[808Hanapaa]

Is there a way to test my electronic (servo, gyro, CPll, , etc) to see how much volts, amps they are pulling during flight?

So if I build my own Heli in the future, I can make sure to get the proper ESC/BEC

Just wondering

Thanks

[pril250]

The rule of thumb I use is 1A per each component. servos=4A, CPII=1A, Gyro/FBL=1A, RX=1A. Total=6-7A so for a 550/600 a 10A BEC would work great. Align BECs are usually rated at 6A, barely enough once you start adding stabilisation etc'. I use the Western Robotics Linear BEC with a 7.4V LIPO on my 600 with no worries.

[808Hanapaa]

Thanks for the info

I removed CPll to if it would eliminate the problem. It still does the same thing (loss of power after 30 seconds of flight.

It never did it before I installed CPll.

Could it be something that would have happened over time and it's just a coincidence with the CPll ?


Thank you

[nightflyr]

Could be your ESC is failing.
Without a data log it is tough to say.If you have another ESC I would give it a try.

[Robban]

You said you tightened the belt! Is it now too tight? Are you sure your esc is not hot after you land? You probably figured it out but your problem has nothing to do with the CPII. Hope you find the problem!

[808Hanapaa]

Thanks for the reply

The belt seemed way too loose so I tightened it a little. It still has play in it. Didn't resolve issue.

I've ordered the CC BEC Pro. Now just need to wait until it arrives to test.

Could it be my One way bearing? I read it somewhere.

Also, with the cc BEC I'm going to use Y harness into my AR7010. Is all Y harness universal? (align servos)

Thanks.

[n6nev]

Originally Posted by 808Hanapaa

Thanks for the reply

The belt seemed way too loose so I tightened it a little. It still has play in it. Didn't resolve issue.

I've ordered the CC BEC Pro. Now just need to wait until it arrives to test.

Could it be my One way bearing? I read it somewhere.
If the one way bearing was defective the motor will spool up with little no head speed

Also, with the cc BEC I'm going to use Y harness into my AR7010. Is all Y harness universal? (align servos)
The CC bec has 2 outlets, one for the RX and the other for the device of your choice

Thanks.

Hope this helps..................Larry

[sutty]

It won't be the one way bearing, but it could be one or more of the others stopping things from spinning freely, but you should be able to tell that easily enough. The one way bearing has little to no impact if it is stiff or even locked. Of course if it is slipping, as n6nev suggested, you can get little to no headspeed, but this is usually immediately apparent. During normal flight the OWB is locked, and not spinning at all, and indeed I frequently fly my 250 with the OWB locked from the start, as it brings me no benefit, as I am incapable of doing an auto with the 250. I can easily free it by turning the mains and holding the gear, but there is no point. Moreover, I had dreadful trouble with a locking OWB on my 550, with no ill effects. No matter what I did, or changed, the bearing would always lock solid at some point during the flight, such that on spool down it would continue to drive the motor. The only time this could have been an issue would have been if I needed an emergency auto, but apparently this is still possible on a 550 as forcing the motor round doesn't take too much from the system. Just as a matter of interest I only finally resolved that issue by replacing it with a Boca bearing, which has now been good for hundreds of flights. Awesome products.

Going back to your original post, there has been much mention of BECS here, but I'm not sure your description suggests any problem with the BEC at all. You described low voltage symptoms, power pulsing, which I take to be the LVC of the ESC cutting in and out. That suggests to me a different problem in that you have an issue with power to the motor. Maybe if the BEC overheats though, or goes low in power, it might cut motor power as a safety feature, so perhaps there is some logic here.

Can't go wrong with the CC BEC anyway, but I just wonder if the problem will persist?

Cheers

Sutty

[808Hanapaa]

Thanks for the reply

I'm afraid to imagine the BEC is not the problem also since the same symptoms occurred with CPll completely removed from the Heli

I'm kind of wondering about your theory. It makes sense also but I have little knowledge of LVC. Is there a way to test it?

What about Cold or Bad solder joints. I checked it by pulling at it and close inspection. Should I just re-solder everything?

I ordered a CC BEC anyways. Crossing my fingers it'll resolve it. BTW. My first Align esc Smoked and this is a replacement. Should have got another brand maybe?

Thanks

[nightflyr]

Being you remove the CPII and the issue still exists..
I am believing you have either...

1) An issue with your ESC
Be that LVC setup is wrong.
Overheating by either the internal BEC
Or the ESC section is taking a powder on you.

2) It is possible your motor is failing on you.

First question that comes to mind is how many flight are on the motor and what condition is it in?
Bearings...windings ETC.

Secondly ALIGN is not noted for Hi-Grade ESC's

This looks like it will be a trial and error process.
IMHO.. I would try another brand ESC, correctly setup and see if the problem still shows itself.

[808Hanapaa]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

First question that comes to mind is how many flight are on the motor and what condition is it in?
Bearings...windings ETC.

Secondly ALIGN is not noted for Hi-Grade ESC's

Thanks for the reply.

The motor has maybe 25 flights....only Hovering. I bought the 500e kit early this year. No crashes. Smoked the stock ESC that came with the kit (rce-bl70g). Got a free replacement under warranty.....no CPll installed back then.

Motor looks, smells, sounds good. Was running great last week.

Yeah, I read about Align esc issues

Could any of my ESC settings have reset itself?

Thanks