Advancing your skills

[sarpilot]

Originally Posted by danyl

Thanks Bob. I am a great fan. I made certain to ingest your tips and build vids before unpacking each of my helis.

I think for the most part it is like riding a bike. All the instruction in the world doesn't make up for just getting in there and doing it. And yes, feel is everything. I think however, a lot of people kind of blindly try the 3D maneuvers. They pull the sticks and hope for the best.

The two points I am on a personal quest to communicate with anyone that will listen, is that

1) There is a considerable amount of concentration that is required and attention to detail when flying 3D. You obviously have reached a sort of Zen with your helicopter in the video, and that is how you are able to make up for those imperfections so well.

2) The novice needs something a little more than instruction on the "right" way to perform a maneuver. He/she needs a road map to the common mistakes: how to identify them, why they are happening, and what to do to correct them. I was literally doing hundreds of bad flips until I simply grabbed my heli one day and talked my way through the maneuver. My flips were resulting in this sort of exaggerated inverted slide that for the life of me I couldn't escape. Once I thought thru what was needed to CREATE the mistake, I was able to avoid it. It's sort of a common PITFALLS thing like the miltary uses.

I don't know how many people would actually benefit from a pitfalls approach to 3D. And more so, I am pretty much only an intermediate myself. I have good forward flight skills and can perform upright FF 3D, but other than inverted hover, I am at a wall.

I'd be happy to detail a pitfalls approach to the the other maneuvers that I can do if people are interested. But what would really help me, is if you or someone else could apply the same perceptive to some of the more advanced stuff. Tic-Tocs are a perfect example. I get the idea. I know the correct sick motions, but I can't figure out what I keep doing wrong. Either my timing is off, or I am under/over controling collective/cyclic. The tic-toc happens, but the heli climbs up at a 45 degree angle, higher and higher with each cycle. It's a new maneuver. I call it the Stairway to Heaven, but it isn't what I am trying to accomplish.

Thanks!

+1

Lots of guys on here with great experience levels. I have gleaned much from this somewhat new forum already and hats off to you guys who know what you are doing taking the time etc......

[AcidDrink]

Well, back at my guitar analogy (it's really similar process, only much easier for helicopters), there is one thing which can easily quadruple your skills in relatively short time if you can get it (whch, for some people is really hard)

Relaxation of muscles. It applies to all twitchy skills, if you are tense you won't be able to play guitar properly, same with flying helicopters. Stay relaxed, no need to tense up and squeeze these sticks. All movement on the sticks comes from forearm muscles and up to the neck. There is alos sympathetic tension, which is kind of feedback - for example in your forehead, you might get headaches if you are tense.
Helicopters have one factor, which is financial fear.. I have a remedy for this, as blunt as it sounds, just don't fly if you can't afford to crash, problem solved. You will feel more rleaxed and crash less.

One more thing - practicing slow and precise is much better than fast and sloppy. Applies to both guitar and helis

[clicky]

+1

Originally Posted by AcidDrink

Helicopters have one factor, which is financial fear.. I have a remedy for this, as blunt as it sounds, just don't fly if you can't afford to crash, problem solved. You will feel more rleaxed and crash less.

Also there is another technique I'm trying to develop: try to forget how much it will be to crash. If you forget and concentrate on flying (that needs lots of batteries of doing things you're comfortable with and don't think/expect to crash) then things slowly go out of perspective and relaxing (not only muscle tension) helps progressing well...

And now seriously - as everyone here, am sure, would confirm - if you put appropriate amount of time into it things are getting much easier. And sim time does count!

[frogs84ss]

great thread guys, I'm loving it being kinda a struggling noob still just hovering around. my number one issue is i can't relax. i find myself squeezing my forearms and telling myself to breath. on the Sim i fly around with no issues, but get me outside and my stick movements are all sloppy and jerky unless i relax then i smooth out a lot. I'm about to sell one my RC cars to get some money to buy a bunch of spare 450 parts so that i don't care if i crash. that way I'll relax a bit more i think. just do it like it's on the Sim.

anyway great thread keep it up.

p.s. i can play guitar but not really play. people can show me something and i can play it with practice ,but i don't know what I'm actually playing. notes or scales or any of that. but i like to analogy of the two and i can see how it all comes together

[AcidDrink]

Originally Posted by clicky

+1
Also there is another technique I'm trying to develop: try to forget how much it will be to crash.

That's the one I use as I am not loaded, but if you are - buy 3 of them of the same type (not recommended if you are married).

Personally, I just laugh it off and take my time. Following a "method" helps. Someone told me that I should master hovers in all orientations then do very slow piros for all orientations - all on the spot. The second part does the trick, much easier to fly if you know how to piro slowly and you learn your heli really quick.

@frogs84ss try a relaxation technique - squeeze your fists really hard, keep them like that for 15 seconds then let go quick. Do the same with your biceps, neck muscles, head muscles (do a grin), feet, toes, legs etc.. try to use every muscle you've got - even with just your pointing finger and thumb. It might put you to sleep, but helps a lot.

Sim time of course counts!

[slamdance]

Hey Frog, one advice on relaxation. Whatever you do on the field like how you hold the tx and standing, you should do the same while flying the sim. Stand, use the neck strap, and place hands on sim tx the same way. This will absolutely help, because familiarity with how you hold and operate will minimize the stress. I am fortunate because futaba makes the realflight sim controller, and I fly a futaba 7ch. It feels almost the same. Besides that there is no cure for stiff/sweaty fingers, I had to do a few hundred flights myself before curing myself of stiff/sweaty fingers. After starting invert it took almost 1000 flights to relax, again.

[clicky]

Originally Posted by AcidDrink

That's the one I use as I am not loaded, but if you are - buy 3 of them of the same type (not recommended if you are married).

No - not at all...

Originally Posted by AcidDrink

Personally, I just laugh it off and take my time. Following a "method" helps. Someone told me that I should master hovers in all orientations then do very slow piros for all orientations - all on the spot. The second part does the trick, much easier to fly if you know how to piro slowly and you learn your heli really quick...

If I knew about slow piros or at least knew ShuNut before it could have saved me two years of lost time and 16+ (actually double at least) crashes... The moment I picked it up (understood the significance of slow, stationary piros, it took me 6-9months to learn them (to the extent) and had since only one crash losing orientation (trying to flip small 250 with low HS close to the ground and tail blow out in first half flip and it went too far from me in second so I just gave up and pressed throttle hold) - but my flying improved several fold since!

Now I'm trying to do the same (slow, on the spot piros) inverted... and it seems to be working, too!

[kutyafal]

I second slow piros also. One of the best tools to teach quick reactions in different orientations. Which you'll need later to save a bad situation.

I'm a musician too but there you don't pay for a false note. However, if you make a mistake you need to skip and jump back into the piece to keep in tempo. In your head you need to stay ahead of what's happening.

Same in flying. Stay ahead mentally. Anticipate.
Besides slow piros I like to do recovery drills on the sim. It is different from flying mentally. If you fall behind and still trying to fly you'll be too late. Once you get better at saving it your confidence grows. And confidence is key. Right after practice...

[Innovine]

There's a certain benefit in breaking down the moves into detailed steps, but I think that that quickly becomes just an excuse not to put in the hard practice time.

I find from playing drums (especially practicing different rolls on the snare) that it is not just a matter of how fast you can play, it's a matter of how fast you can hear/process what's going on. As you practice more and more, you will start to notice small details and imperfections, which you just practice and practice until smooth. By then you are playing a little faster, and you also see/hear/feel finer detail, so you can start to work on those. You don't have to break this down and apply much thought to the process, just focus and practice a LOT.

I think the helicopter flying is the same. You can break the moves down and know that there are tiny corrections here and there, but until you've put in a couple of hundred hours practicing at it, it's still just theory and you wont be able to react and provide these tiny corrections at a fast enough rate to be smooth. No amount of reading will teach you how to ride a bicycle.

[ziper_it]

Originally Posted by Innovine

No amount of reading will teach you how to ride a bicycle.

Great picture!

Francesco

[Lottomunch]

I think it's important to have the steps broken down initially but don't think there is a way around the whole practice thing. I can tell you my backwards (inverted and normal) was all over the sky vertically. I had a horrible time adjusting collective to keep the little sucker level. After a few months of just practicing and practicing I now fly nice clean figure 8's and keep it at the same elevation.

Try Funnels. There is no real story to be told with those suckers. You just practice and practice.

One thing that helps me out is to slow down the simulator. I do this inorder to actually pull off the trick. My brain isn't fast enough to learn them at normal speed. I slow it down and then bump it up 10-15% once I've got that level under control.

As for Tic-Toc's I just learned something VERY handy from one of Bert Kammerer's smacktalk videos. Make sure you're using ALL of your Elevator (or Aileron) and little collective. I was using trying it opposite and it was real tough. Make the elevator stick actually bump the top and bottom of the transmitter. He says you get lots of lift out of the elevator and that makes you need less collective.

10 minutes a day on the sim. You practice and it will come.

[clicky]

Originally Posted by Lottomunch

10 minutes a day on the sim. You practice and it will come.

+1 - daily 10-15 minutes makes huge difference!

[UAVBreaker]

Interesting thread! Nice to see other musicians, too.

First of all, practice makes perfect.

As someone who once made his living as an orchestral musician, I spent a LOT of time practicing. It does work! It's not always a nice, linear progression -- more of a stepwise, terraced improvement, with dry spells and breakthroughs.

One thing that I had to learn was how to teach myself. I had to learn how I learn, so to speak. And that's different for different people. So sometimes when you're practicing, think more about the process than the result, and whether you're actually improving. Like this thread's OP said, maybe you'll need to think about how to intentionally make the error that you're seeing. Try to understand the error. Don't just go through your practice thinking "ooh, good piro flip." "doh, bad piro flip." Study your practice. Record your sim time and look at it the next day.

For me, I found that I'd beat myself up (mentally) if I played something incorrectly. So I decided that I shouldn't ever play anything incorrectly during practice. Of course this meant slowing things down a lot at first and being patient with my progression. It's a little tougher with helis since we can't slow down gravity here on Earth. But a lot of it is mental -- reward yourself with success and your subconscious will help you continue to be successful.

Another thing -- any of you ever read any sports psychology books? Like "The Inner Game of Tennis" or something similar? Great info and insight on developing and understanding the mindset common to those who excel at difficult tasks. How to get into "the zone," what it means, etc.

It takes a lot of time to become familiar with something to the point where adjustments are automatic. Talent can reduce the time necessary, but time still is needed. And 1 hour spent thoughtfully is worth more than 5 hours of screwing around.

[akshaw]

Recently I was wondering about stick height and what difference it might make when flying. So I adjusted the sticks on my tx to make them longer and noticed that it wasn't as hard to do consecutive flips and rainbows. When I think about it, this makes sense because it reduces sensitivity, kind of like adding expo, except that it's a reduction of all around sensitivity. A small wiggle won't do as much when the sticks are longer, so it's not as easy to over-compensate. On the other hand when sticks are longer you have to move your thumbs a bit more! So my question goes out to guys that can do 3D. Do you guys adjust your stick height? Taller? Shorter?

[004ustamok]

it does make sense,thanx

[frogs84ss]

Originally Posted by slamdance

Hey Frog, one advice on relaxation. Whatever you do on the field like how you hold the tx and standing, you should do the same while flying the sim. Stand, use the neck strap, and place hands on sim tx the same way. This will absolutely help, because familiarity with how you hold and operate will minimize the stress. I am fortunate because futaba makes the realflight sim controller, and I fly a futaba 7ch. It feels almost the same. Besides that there is no cure for stiff/sweaty fingers, I had to do a few hundred flights myself before curing myself of stiff/sweaty fingers. After starting invert it took almost 1000 flights to relax, again.

awesome advice. i can actually do this because i use clearveiw flight Sim and i use a gws usb adapter to use my dx7 radio. and i programed it for the throttle hold and flight mode switches correctly. i have done this in the past but didn't think it made a difference but i think i will do this more. it just makes sense now.