Vibe 500E 3D Build/Test Notes

[Mystic3D]

Spike,

You are probably right that I am at max rpm for the motor. The reason I changed it was I was at 40% fltat Throttle Curve governed on my Jive 80LV. I was trying to get it to 80% flat governed which is right where it is now. I don't really know electic very well so was experimenting...

[rotodingo]

For information, the Kora 15-14 i had on my Vibe 500E reached approx 40-45°C with 20°C outside temp. KV 790 with 5S batt.

I have a Kora 15-16 on a Lepton EX and temp is 35°C after 2 packs with 20°C outside. Really cool. Airflow getting out of the motor at the bottom is really huge.

[kdfi]

sorry to go off topic guys. I had to put my BNF vibe 500e up for sale if you might know someone intersted

[Mystic3D]

Canomod has 6 Vibe 500E Designs up on Canomod.com. Just ordered two of them,

[Heli1R]

Nice choices Mystic, when you get them, please show us pics of your beauty dressed with the new canopies. Also, it would be interesting to know the all dressed weight of the Canomod canopies for this bird.

I've only had one Canomod canopy (for my FBL Logo 500) and it did not come predrilled or with grommets.

[Mystic3D]

1) ESC
a) The EFlite 60A ESC works but with no real softstart it is being replaced with a Jive 80LV for the Softstart and Governor Mode.
2) Changed to Jive e80LV
a) 45% Throttle is 3000 RPM
b) 40% Throttle is 2800 RPM
3) Changed to Scorpion 3026-880Kv
a) 12T Pinion
b) Headspeed is 2650 on Jive 80LV at 80% Flat Throttle Curve
c) Did the 83% End Points on Throttle to get max resolution on Jive
d) Motor Running Hot
e) Less Power than E-Flite Power 25
f) Not a worthwhile upgrade/downgrade





4) Compare Neu to Scorpion
a) Neu 1706H/2Y
i) Would need 11T Pinion
ii) RPM/Volt: 950 Kv
iii) 5.6oz. 158 Grams
iv) Overall Length: 39mm
v) Overall Diameter: 43mm
vi) Shaft Diameter: 5mm
5) Scorpion 3026
a) 12T Pinion
b) 880Kv/V
c) Outside Diameter 37.5
d) 199 grams
6) E-Flite Power 25
i) Poles=12
ii) RPM/Volt (Kv): 1000Kv
iii) Resistance (Ri): .026 ohms
iv) Idle Current (Io): 2.60A @ 20V
v) Continuous Current: 38A
vi) Maximum Burst Current: 58A (15 sec)
vii) Weight: 196 g (6.9 oz)
viii) Overall Diameter: 35mm (1.40 in)
ix) Shaft Diameter: 5mm (.20 in)
x) Overall Length: 56mm (2.20 in)
xi) Max Efficiency 82%
xii) ESC Timing 20-25 deg
xiii) ESC Switching Freq. 8-16KHz
7) 3/12/2010 – Removed EFlite Power 25 – PACKS GETTING TOO HOT

[Mystic3D]

After going though Multiple iterations and combinations here are the final notes on the different things and settings I tried. Also Final Pictures.

Notes are oldest first, so the new updates are at the end....

Project Complete...

1) Commentary
a) Pros
i) Bearing Blocks at top of frame and below the main gear. So very secure and smooth.
ii) Tail Drive is belt, takes forever to spool down, great for autos, large gear drives belt held by two large idler pulleys so low resistance.
iii) Uses same ball links as Vibe 50, strong and adjustable. Tighten by squeezing with pliers.
iv) Tail mechanism same design as Vibe 50, slop free, simple
v) Instructions are very complete, clear, detailed
vi) Flys very smooth, hands off hover, no pitch up
b) Cons
i) Recommended ESC(E-Flite 60A), no soft start, Gets Very Hot, Does not learn endpoints(Spool up starts above 1/8 stick), belongs in an airplane.
ii) Landing Gear is one piece plastic, nothing wrong, just looks cheap compared to the rest of the heli.
2) Configuration
a) E-Flite 60A ESC
b) E-Flite Power 25 Motor
c) JR 3517MG on Cyclic
d) JR 7703D with 3500G on Tail
3) Target Headspeed=2800
4) Gear Ratio
a) Pinion Gear = 12T
b) Main Gear = 85
c) Ratio = 7:08:1
5) Weight without Battery=1400g
6) E-Flite Power 25
i) Poles=12
ii) RPM/Volt (Kv): 1000Kv
iii) Resistance (Ri): .026 ohms
iv) Idle Current (Io): 2.60A @ 20V
v) Continuous Current: 38A
vi) Maximum Burst Current: 58A (15 sec)
vii) Weight: 196 g (6.9 oz)
viii) Overall Diameter: 35mm (1.40 in)
ix) Shaft Diameter: 5mm (.20 in)
x) Overall Length: 56mm (2.20 in)
xi) Max Efficiency 82%
xii) ESC Timing 20-25 deg
xiii) ESC Switching Freq. 8-16KHz
7) Battery
a) Thunder Power extreme 2700 6S 30S
i) Reccommended
ii) 120Lx39Wx46H
iii) 430g
b) Zippy-H 6S 3300(Tested Fit)
i) 147Lx46Wx40H
ii) 530g
c) Outrage 25XP 3000(Tested Fit, Would not buy)
i) 140Lx42Wx37H
ii) Weight: 438g
d) Flightmax 6S 2650(Will Fit)
i) 143x45x32
ii) 409g
e) Hyperion 6S 2500 CX(Will Fit)
i) 105Lx34x53
ii) 400g
f) Flightmax 6S 4000(Will Fit, Very Heavy)
i) 147Lx52Wx39H
ii) 585g
g) HYPERION G3 VX 22.2V 6S 3300 MAH $155.00 (Not Sure?)
i) 136Lx43.3Hx42.7W
ii) Weight: 524g
iii)
8) Build Notes
a) After Step 5-7 in the Manual
i) The Vibe 500E can take full size servo or mini servo’s like the 3517. With 3517 servo’s the Linkage Rods from the servo’s to the swashplate need to longer than the manual calls for. With Servo’s centered adjust linkage so that when at full pitch washout block is 1/8” from head block. This will ensure the washout pins are engaged when at full negative pitch.
ii) Next you need to make the washout arms level. At mid stick you needs to adjust the linkage rods from the swash to the stabilizer arm to ensure the arms on the washout arms are level. The linkage rods need to be the same length(very important).
iii) With pitch still at mid stick, Next the seesaw arms need to be parallel to the stabilizer arms. You will need to adjust the linkage rods from the swashplate to the seesaw arms to make them perpendicular to the main shaft or parallel to the stabilizer arms.
iv) Now put on the blades and put a pitch gauge on the blades. Ensure the flybar is level. The EL500 Flybar Lock/Swash Leveling Tool from Readyheli works very well for this purpose. The Main Blade pitch should be 0 degrees. Adjust the linkage rods from the main blade grips to the seesaw arms to ensure the Blades are zero pitch.
9) ESC Setup – Not documented in ESC Manual or Motor Manual. Found suggested settings for motor on another website.
a) Refer to ESC Manual for how to program the following settings
i) 6 Cell Voltage Cutoff
ii) No Brake
iii) Timing = 20 degrees or 25 degrees(I choose 20 degrees)
iv) Throttle Input = 1.2ms-1.8ms
v) Start up Rate=1 second
vi) PWM Switching 8kHz or 16kHz, I choose 8kHz
10) Pinion
a) I initially went with the 13T pinion and set the mesh using the standard method of Paper between the main and pinion gear. Note the main gear is VERY True, no high spots as you rotate to check the gap at different parts on the main gear.
b) I switched out the pinion for the 12T which is also supplied with the kit. Upon trying to set the gear mesh even if you push the motor mount backward towards the main gear to tighten the mesh there is too much gap there. So I removed the motor and modified the motor mount to move the motor backward towards the main gear. Taking a small round file to file the slot closest to the back of the heli to allow the motor to be closer to the main gear. I took off about 1/8” and it allowed the motor to be mounted closer to the main gear. Then setting the mesh was not a problem as the motor was moved towards the main gear.
c) The 12T is the smallest I would run in this heli as there would be a problem setting the correct mesh.
11) Maiden Flight Notes
a) Upon advancing the throttle, you must advance to over 1/8 stick before the ESC engages. Upon engagement the heli spins 90 degrees around for lack of Soft Start Mode in this ESC.
b) Heli Flys like a dream, tracks straight, hovers hands free.
c) With Throttle Curve 0-50-100 at hover Blades Speed was tached at 2800 RPM.
d) After 5 min Flying in 100 degree ambient, motor temp was 156F and ESC was 147F, Battery 105F. ESC and Motor TOO HOT.
e) Flying 5 min 4 packs, temp was 138 on motor and 142 on ESC. 1900 maH out of each of the 5 packs. Still need to change setup of ESC. Paddles were making noise, landed and the vinyl covering the paddles had come off. Removed all the Vinyl. Flew fine but made strange woosh noise.
12) Alternative Motors
a) Based upon Headspeed Calculator the motor Kv must between 850 and 1000 for a target headspeed between 850 and 1000 and either a 12T or 13T motor.
b) Motors that work in a Trex 500 do not apply here as Trex has a 11:57 Gear Ratio. Note average weight is 200g heavier than Vibe dry/without battery.
c) Hacker A 40 12S – Will not work with Jive 80LV
d) Kora 15-14
i) 790Kv
ii) 150g 5.29oz
iii) 15T pinion?
e) Neu 1706H/2Y
i) Would need 11T Pinion
ii) RPM/Volt: 950 Kv
iii) 5.6oz. 158 Grams
iv) Overall Length: 39mm
v) Overall Diameter: 43mm
vi) Shaft Diameter: 5mm
vii) 8 Poles
f) Hacker A40 10L
i) 1100kv
ii) Io=1.7A
iii) Dia=41.7mm
iv) Length=61mm
v) Weight=265g
vi) Timing=15-20 deg
vii) PWM=8kHz
viii)
g) Scorpion 3026 880Kv
i) Stator Diameter ............................ 30.0 mm (1.181 in)
ii) Stator Thickness ........................... 26.0 mm (1.024 in)
iii) No. of Stator Arms ................................................ 12
iv) No. of Magnet Poles ............................................... 10
v) Motor Wind ............................................ 10 Turn Delta
vi) Motor Wire ..................... 14-Strand 0.25mm (30 AWG)
vii) Motor Kv ............................................. 880 RPM / Volt
viii) No-Load Current (Io) ................... 2.30Amps @ 6 volts
ix) Motor Resistance (Rm) ............................. 0.026 Ohms
x) Max Continuous Current ............................... 52 Amps
xi) Max Continuous Power .............................. 1450 Watts
xii) Weight ......................................... 199 Grams (7.02oz)
xiii) Outside Diameter .......................... 37.5 mm (1.476 in)
xiv) Shaft Diameter ............................. 5.00 mm (0.197 in)
xv) Body Length ................................. 48.4 mm (1.906 in)
xvi) Overall Shaft Length ...................... 74.2 mm (2.921 in

13) ESC
a) The EFlite 60A ESC works but with no real softstart it is being replaced with a Jive 80LV for the Softstart and Governor Mode.
14) Changed to Jive e80LV
a) 45% Throttle is 3000 RPM
b) 40% Throttle is 2800 RPM
15) Changed to Scorpion 3026-880Kv
a) 12T Pinion
b) Headspeed is 2650 on Jive 80LV at 80% Flat Throttle Curve
c) Did the 83% End Points on Throttle to get max resolution on Jive
d) Motor Running Hot
e) Less Power than E-Flite Power 25
f) Not a worthwhile upgrade/downgrade





16) Compare Neu to Scorpion
a) Neu 1706H/2Y
i) Would need 11T Pinion
ii) RPM/Volt: 950 Kv
iii) 5.6oz. 158 Grams
iv) Overall Length: 39mm
v) Overall Diameter: 43mm
vi) Shaft Diameter: 5mm
17) Scorpion 3026
a) 12T Pinion
b) 880Kv/V
c) Outside Diameter 37.5
d) 199 grams
18) E-Flite Power 25
i) Poles=12
ii) RPM/Volt (Kv): 1000Kv
iii) Resistance (Ri): .026 ohms
iv) Idle Current (Io): 2.60A @ 20V
v) Continuous Current: 38A
vi) Maximum Burst Current: 58A (15 sec)
vii) Weight: 196 g (6.9 oz)
viii) Overall Diameter: 35mm (1.40 in)
ix) Shaft Diameter: 5mm (.20 in)
x) Overall Length: 56mm (2.20 in)
xi) Max Efficiency 82%
xii) ESC Timing 20-25 deg
xiii) ESC Switching Freq. 8-16KHz
19) 3/12/2010 – Removed EFlite Power 25 – PACKS GETTING TOO HOT

[Mystic3D]

1) Commentary
a) Pros
i) Bearing Blocks at top of frame and below the main gear. So very secure and smooth.
ii) Tail Drive is belt, takes forever to spool down, great for autos, large gear drives belt held by two large idler pulleys so low resistance.
iii) Uses same ball links as Vibe 50, strong and adjustable. Tighten by squeezing with pliers.
iv) Tail mechanism same design as Vibe 50, slop free, simple
v) Instructions are very complete, clear, detailed
vi) Flys very smooth, hands off hover, no pitch up
b) Cons
i) Recommended ESC(E-Flite 60A), no soft start, Gets Very Hot, Does not learn endpoints(Spool up starts above 1/8 stick), belongs in an airplane.
ii) Landing Gear is one piece plastic, nothing wrong, just looks cheap compared to the rest of the heli.
2) Configuration
a) E-Flite 60A ESC
b) E-Flite Power 25 Motor
c) JR 3517MG on Cyclic
d) JR 7703D with 3500G on Tail
3) Target Headspeed=2800
4) Gear Ratio
a) Pinion Gear = 13T
b) Main Gear = 85
c) Ratio = 7:08:1
d) 12T also included in kit
5) Weight without Battery=1400g
6) Battery Choices
a) Thunder Power Extreme 2700 6S 30S
i) Tested, Fits, Good Power
ii) 120Lx39Wx46H
iii) 430g
b) Thunder Power Pro Lite 2600 6S 20C
i) Tested, Fits,Light, Okay Power
ii) 102Lx50WX42H
iii) Weight: 352g
c) Outrage 25XP 3000(Fits, Would not buy)
i) 140Lx42Wx37H
ii) Weight: 438g
d) Flightmax 6S 2650 20C
i) Tested, Fits, Low Power
ii) 143x45x32
iii) 409g
e) Hyperion 6S 2500 CX 25C
i) Tested, Fits, Good Power
ii) 105Lx34x53
iii) 400g
f) Hyperion G3 VX 2600 6S 35C
i) Tested Fits, Powerful, Little Heavy
ii) 107Lx54Wx54H
iii) 404g
g) Turnigy 2650 6S 30C
i) $46.80
ii) Not Tested, Close Fit
iii) Weight=466g
iv) 137Lx42Wx35H
7) Build Notes
a) After Step 5-7 in the Manual
i) The Vibe 500E can take full size servo or mini servo’s like the 3517. With 3517 servo’s the Linkage Rods from the servo’s to the swashplate need to longer than the manual calls for. With Servo’s centered adjust linkage so that when at full pitch washout block is 1/8” from head block. This will ensure the washout pins are engaged when at full negative pitch.
ii) Next you need to make the washout arms level. At mid stick you needs to adjust the linkage rods from the swash to the stabilizer arm to ensure the arms on the washout arms are level. The linkage rods need to be the same length(very important).
iii) With pitch still at mid stick, Next the seesaw arms need to be parallel to the stabilizer arms. You will need to adjust the linkage rods from the swashplate to the seesaw arms to make them perpendicular to the main shaft or parallel to the stabilizer arms.
iv) Now put on the blades and put a pitch gauge on the blades. Ensure the flybar is level. The EL500 Flybar Lock/Swash Leveling Tool from Readyheli works very well for this purpose. The Main Blade pitch should be 0 degrees. Adjust the linkage rods from the main blade grips to the seesaw arms to ensure the Blades are zero pitch.
8) Pinion
a) I initially went with the 13T pinion and set the mesh using the standard method of Paper between the main and pinion gear. Note the main gear is VERY True, no high spots as you rotate to check the gap at different parts on the main gear.
b) I switched out the pinion for the 12T which is also supplied with the kit. Upon trying to set the gear mesh even if you push the motor mount backward towards the main gear to tighten the mesh there is too much gap there. So I removed the motor and modified the motor mount to move the motor backward towards the main gear. Taking a small round file to file the slot closest to the back of the heli to allow the motor to be closer to the main gear. I took off about 1/8” and it allowed the motor to be mounted closer to the main gear. Then setting the mesh was not a problem as the motor was moved towards the main gear.
c) The 12T is the smallest I would run in this heli as there would be a problem setting the correct mesh.
9) Maiden Flight Notes
a) Upon advancing the throttle, you must advance to over 1/8 stick before the ESC engages(Do not like EFlite ESC). Upon engagement the heli spins 90 degrees around for lack of Soft Start Mode in this ESC.
b) Heli Flys like a dream, tracks straight, hovers hands free.
c) With Throttle Curve 0-50-100 at hover Blades Speed was tached at 2800 RPM.
d) After 5 min Flying in 100 degree ambient, motor temp was 156F and ESC was 147F, Battery 105F. ESC and Motor TOO HOT.
e) Flying 5 min 4 packs, temp was 138 on motor and 142 on ESC. 1900 maH out of each of the 5 packs. Still need to change setup of ESC. Paddles were making noise, landed and the vinyl covering the paddles had come off. Removed all the Vinyl. Flew fine but made strange woosh noise.
10) Alternative Motors
a) Based upon Headspeed Calculator the motor Kv must between 850 and 1000 for a target headspeed between 850 and 1000 and either a 12T or 13T motor.
b) Motors that work in a Trex 500 do not apply here as Trex has a 11:57 Gear Ratio. Note average weight is 200g heavier than Vibe dry/without battery.
c) E-Flite Power 25
i) Tested , Great Power, Hard on 20C Packs
ii) Poles=12
iii) RPM/Volt (Kv): 1000Kv
iv) Resistance (Ri): .026 ohms
v) Idle Current (Io): 2.60A @ 20V
vi) Continuous Current: 38A
vii) Maximum Burst Current: 58A (15 sec)
viii) Weight: 196 g (6.9 oz)
ix) Overall Diameter: 35mm (1.40 in)
x) Shaft Diameter: 5mm (.20 in)
xi) Overall Length: 56mm (2.20 in)
xii) Max Efficiency 82%
xiii) ESC Timing 20-25 deg
xiv) ESC Switching Freq. 8-16KHz
d) Hacker A 40 12S
i) Will not work with Jive 80LV
e) Kora 15-14
i) Reports are Light, Okay Power, Expensive
ii) 790Kv
iii) 150g 5.29oz
iv) 15T pinion?
f) Neu 1706H/2Y
i) Reports are poor power
ii) Would need 11T Pinion
iii) RPM/Volt: 950 Kv
iv) 5.6oz. 158 Grams
v) Overall Length: 39mm
vi) Overall Diameter: 43mm
vii) Shaft Diameter: 5mm
viii) 8 Poles
g) Hacker A40 10L
i) 1100kv
ii) Io=1.7A
iii) Dia=41.7mm
iv) Length=61mm
v) Weight=265g
vi) Timing=15-20 deg
vii) PWM=8kHz
h) Scorpion 3026 880Kv
i) No. of Magnet Poles=10
ii) Motor Kv=880 RPM / Volt
iii) Max Continuous Power=1450 Watts
iv) Weight= 199 Grams
v) Outside Diameter=37.5 mm
vi) Shaft Diameter=5.00 mm
vii) Body Length=48.4 mm
i) Kontronik Pyro 600-09
i) Kv=930 kV
ii) Power Output =2000W
iii) MAX RPM= 28,000
iv) Weight=220 g
v) Outside Diameter = 45mm
vi) Body Length = 53mm
vii)

11) ESC
a) The EFlite 60A ESC works but with no real softstart it is being replaced with a Jive 80LV for the Softstart and Governor Mode.
12) Changed to Jive e80LV
a) 45% Throttle is 3000 RPM
b) 40% Throttle is 2800 RPM
13) Changed to Scorpion 3026-880Kv
a) 12T Pinion
b) Headspeed is 2650 on Jive 80LV at 80% Flat Throttle Curve
c) Did the 83% End Points on Throttle to get max resolution on Jive
d) Motor Running Hot
e) Less Power than E-Flite Power 25
f) Not a worthwhile upgrade/downgrade





14) Compare Neu to Scorpion
a) Neu 1706H/2Y
i) Would need 11T Pinion
ii) RPM/Volt: 950 Kv
iii) 5.6oz. 158 Grams
iv) Overall Length: 39mm
v) Overall Diameter: 43mm
vi) Shaft Diameter: 5mm
15) Scorpion 3026
a) 12T Pinion
b) 880Kv/V
c) Outside Diameter 37.5
d) 199 grams
16) 3/12/2010 – Removed EFlite Power 25 – PACKS GETTING TOO HOT
17) 5/14/2010 – Scorpion 3026 880kV
a) Temperature = 150 F
b) Power is Okay, Need More Power
c) Want to put EFlite Power 25 back in 12T Pinion

[zooduster]

So I'm a little confused, What would be the correct motor/controller? 880kv Scorpion and ICE 75 controller?. Pinion gear 13t?. I'm a newbie here and need the help.
Thanks in advance

[Mystic3D]

Scorpion 3026-1000 with Ice 75 and 12T is better. Now 40C lipos are common so this is way to go.

[zooduster]

Thanks Mystic, any other suggestions?

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by zooduster

Thanks Mystic, any other suggestions?

1. Replace the Tail Blades, KBD Proto's Blades. Stock are too soft
2. Get a good gyro, Spartan Quark
3. 3517's on Cyclic, 3500G Tail
4. Radix 425's, SAb 425'S are both nice
5. Canomod makes some nice canopies(I sent them the mold canopy)
6. Get LIGHT batteries. 2600 6S, 35C or better ~400g

Want Power, Scorpion 3026-1000, Want Efficiency 3026-880Kv
Want something no one else has tried that I have been wanting to try?
Pyro 600 09, downside it's $300.00 motor

Ice 75 is fine, Jive 80LV is more expensive, but better Gov. Prob not worth the extra $

[Mystic3D]

Still waiting for a report on a Pyro 600 09 as this might be the ideal motor for 500E. I just cannot push the buy button on a $300 motor...

[cacomarcooo]

Someone has tryed Turnigy nano-tech 2650mAh 6S 35~70C?

Dimensions: 146 x 44 x 33 mm
Weight: 417g (including wire, plug & case)
Price: 45.99$
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=11948

Seems interesting, really cheap and not so heavy. No?

Brs

[Mystic3D]

Not enough C, weight is good around 400g.

Also update on Pyro 600 09, powerhouse, but what were 6 min flights are now 4 min

[cacomarcooo]

Not enough C? Because of your flybarless upgrade, right?
Enough for standard config with for example a Kora 15-16 (690kv), Hacker X-55 SB Pro and mini servos like JR3517 and JR3500G.
X-55 is able to deliver 55A, and with the nano-tech lipo we have 35C * 2.65A = ~93A so it's ok, no?

[Mystic3D]

Kora 15-16 no prob. I tend to run hotter motors and on 6S draws a lot of amps.

[marcosbong]

Originally Posted by In_to_the_Mystic_2003

Kora 15-16 no prob. I tend to run hotter motors and on 6S draws a lot of amps.

Hello mystic. Just testing if this thread is alive

[marcosbong]

Just bought a vibe 500

[Mystic3D]

Nice Bird


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