Pyro 700 ~400Kv Target

[GimpyGolden]

Hello Motor Tuners,
I have a Logo 690Sx I am running at low head speeds (1500) and am looking to shed some weight.
I have puller the 4525-370 and am replacing with my p700 my good buddy Belcom is going to wind up for me.
I will be running a V9 Jive 80Hv as this is what I've got and no intentions of buying something else. Basically going to setup for low speed like a 600SE.

Barring that is it a better option to wind this as Delta or Wye/Double Wye.
I've read in the past Jive is optimized for D wind motors, any evidence to support that?

Suggested by another bud, HeliFx we'd be looking at 17 turns YY to get about 390Kv
If we go YY I'm thinking this one Dekker posted is a good option and confirms Ralph's math.
Maybe in 1.00 to go a little easier on the controller, unless that is detrimental in other regards?

If Delta is best was thinking a 15 x 1.18 at 390 Kv would do well like that offered from SlowFlyWorld
Maybe do that as 1.12 to somewhat reduce potential current draw, yea or nay?

Any input is appreciated.

[powercroco]

optimized for d doens't mean, it works better with this compared to yy.
the problem in yy for produktion is, it needs more room behind the stator and someone will have 2 soldering points more. afaik only x-nova and scorpion are willing to borrow the additional effort - this is expensive, because it can be done only by hands and it costs a lot of time to prepare the wires.

of course a well done delta terminated winding also works really good with jive.

I would suggest, follow Bert's well tried traces.
but this is of course only my personal opinion.

[GimpyGolden]

So one vote for YY, and a pretty significant one considering it's from the Doc.

[apostolosnt]

So why not Wye?

[prototype3a]

I would suggest dropping down to 10s to shift the efficiency curve towards lower currents and enable you to run a higher kv wind.

[apostolosnt]

Originally Posted by prototype3a

I would suggest dropping down to 10s to shift the efficiency curve towards lower currents and enable you to run a higher kv wind.

Can you explain a bit more about this? Wouldn't lower voltage bats require higher current to produce the same power output?

[prototype3a]

He doesn't need 'same power' since he's only going to run 1500rpm. I would expect the average power (current) to be lower than a standard 600se.

Of course, to come to any real conclusions, we would need to see some data logs from a 1500rpm setup on his 600se. However, the more I learn about motors, the more I think a lower voltage makes sense on lower power setups as on a 12s setup, the motor doesn't really get above 80% efficiency until about 20-25A and he'll likely see maybe 10A in a hover on 10s.

[omerco]

Originally Posted by apostolosnt

So why not Wye?

Normal Y will give high R - significantly more than YY or D, if that is what you meant by Wye.

[omerco]

Originally Posted by prototype3a

I would suggest dropping down to 10s to shift the efficiency curve towards lower currents and enable you to run a higher kv wind.

That is a very interesting idea. makes me wonder which would give better results.
Putting aside the he probably already has the 12S packs...

[prototype3a]

FWIW, the Mikado recommended 'best setup' back in the day on the 600se was a pyro700-52 on 10s4500. My buddy had this setup and it was just unreal. He could get ~10min flights while when I beat on it, I could get 7min flights and this was around 1700/1800rpm. Neither the motor or Jive 80hv ever got warm.

[omerco]

I have some experience these days with Racing drone's motors on 3 and 4 cells. One thing I have learned is that when you go up in voltage (and here it is 33% more) you get much more power and much less flight time. I didn't check it but i guess also the efficiency is lower.

With helies it is a little different because we work at steady RPM and power is changing so it depends how much power you ask for (while with a constant pitch 100% power is always 100%)

[prototype3a]

On multis, the biggest difference is the propeller's performance. I've been playing with them myself. The trend I've seen on the motors is that you get a small bump in the continuous power rating from 3s to 4s but above 4s it starts dropping fast as the iron losses skyrocket.

[omerco]

Interesting!
I got big differences between 3 and 4 cells. didn't test with more.
We also tested mid to high quality motors like Xnove 2204 so maybe they perform better.

[apostolosnt]

If he is changing his setup completely then yes a 10S makes sense. My comment was that if you are simply switching from 12S to 10S and want to get the same performance things are not entirely as you said.

The 600se goes great with 10S. Keeps it very light too.
My 600se is 3970gr with 10S 5000 25C bats and does everything.
This is a log from a sport fly with some more aggressive in between.
At the end of the flight there is a short time at 1500rpm just floating about and landing. Amp draw is 13-15A. This is on 5020 1.4mm YY 525kv and 12T pinion. It's the one heli I will never sell.

[apostolosnt]

Originally Posted by omerco

Normal Y will give high R - significantly more than YY or D, if that is what you meant by Wye.

OK. Here are some numbers of the exact same 4035 wound YY and Wye:

Io@V
YY = 2.54 @ 20.2
Wye = 1.63 @ 22.7

YY is 1.4mm and Wye is 1.7mm. The Wye runs much cooler.
YY = ambient + 14C
Wye = ambient + 7C

I will try to get some logs. I am now converting my 600se to 12S with this motor so it will take some time being winter...

[omerco]

That doesn't say much - How much copper fill is there in each motor? sometimes the more packed motor with higher performance will run hotter (Scorpion...) And the higher R while having more cooling and drawing less amps + less power runs cooler (original Pyro 700...)

Do the 2 motors have similar KV? copper fill?
What is the internal R of each?

[prototype3a]

Most of your flight was in the 10-20A range that I would expect and towards the end it is 10-15A.

To really compare motors you need Izero as a function of input voltage AND Rm.

[apostolosnt]

Originally Posted by omerco

That doesn't say much - How much copper fill is there in each motor? sometimes the more packed motor with higher performance will run hotter (Scorpion...) And the higher R while having more cooling and drawing less amps + less power runs cooler (original Pyro 700...)

Do the 2 motors have similar KV? copper fill?
What is the internal R of each?

The two winds have very similar copper content. Of course they have very different kv. That was the intention. To compare two setups, 10s and 12s.

[omerco]

So the 12S one has lower KV which means it has more turns and thinner wire to get that than if it was running on 10S.

I believe you are not really comparing apples to apples: if you want real comparison you either need to wind the same motor with the same wind ones for 12S and once for 10S, or wind the same motor for a specific cell count once with Wye and once YY.

Its hard for me to compare that way but maybe the more experienced guys here can.

[GimpyGolden]

Originally Posted by omerco

That is a very interesting idea. makes me wonder which would give better results.
Putting aside the he probably already has the 12S packs...

Bingo. Gotta share 3700-12S with my 600SX.
Want/need to be into one size LiPo this coming flying season. With our shit dollar I am not buying anymore LiPo than I "need"

Vlad (Belcom) has my motor now. Think we settled on a 17t YY, like the one Dekker posted.
https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=55