Problem when turning/piro the Extreme/Gy601

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Hi

Now I have mounted the Gy601 Sensor as:
- 3M Products 4408 double sided vinyl foam tape (Minair tape)
- Steelplate
- Original GY601 tape
- and the the sensor

Fly it with and without any Velcro.
Try the add +15% Grain traking.
Try to change the gain tracking to -15% gain tracking (That was bad, then the gy fully over compensate when stopping piro)

AND the tail still over compensate (drifting approxx. 5° in other direction after stopping fast right piros..


I still need to try +29% (that is max) gainm tracking......



ChopperKnud

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

aagggrhhh
I Still do have the problem:
When stopping fast right piro, the gyro "over compensate" (turn 5° backwards when stopping)
And the tail feels not vary “stiff” when flying.

I think I have tried every suggested things…..
Right now I have the gyro mounted with 3 layers of “MA double Tape” – the steel plate, and then 1 layer of the standard 601 tape, and wrap around with Velcro.
I have tried max Gain tracking.

But I was wondering:
Do you guys fly in 3D mode or FAI mode on GY601?
Should I try to use the inner and/or the outer hole at the tail bell crank (now I use the center hole)?
How many of you guys have the mounted the gyro on the “standard” place on the Fury Extreme?
Could it be because running the YS91/8:45, and thereby the tail do not have enough power?


ChopperKnud

[DavidH]

The tail should have the same power no matter what gear ratio your using. The gear ratio to the tail still stays the same with each main gear ratio.

If your turning 1850 with 8.45 or 1850 with 8.18. The tail rotor will still turn the same speed with both main gear ratios.

If your using 3 layers of the double sided foam tape from MA, that is too much in my opinion. I don't use the steel plate when the gyro is mounted on a surface that is not carbon fiber. I only use one layer of the MA style foam tape to move the sensor directly to the aluminum sensor mount on the heli. I don't use any velcro around the gyro.

I use the GY601 in F3C mode.

David

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Hi
Different gearing (8,45 – 8,18):
Yes sure, the Tail speed would be the same if I use the same Headspeed.
But when I did use the 8,18 and the OS91PS I did run faster rpm on the head, I think I did run 1900-1950……


I guess I will try 1 layer of the MA tape (and no plate).
Afterwards I will try 3D mode.....
And last try a different hole at the bell crank on the tail

You 3D guys: do you also use the F3c mode on the GY601?


ChopperKnud

[megotroulette]

maybe your tail servo is wearing out or you have a dud?

or have you replaced it?

Cheers,

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

hi

The servo has flown about 600 flights - not hard 3D......

ChopperKnud

[megotroulette]

thats getting fairly old.... i would be replacing that and try it...

Cheers,

[DavidH]

I don't know if 600 flights is a lot on a 9251 or not. I have one model that has a 9251 on it that has been there since I got the GY 601's in 2001. I don't know how many flights are on that one servo. But I would guess there is well above 1000 flights on it.


David

[megotroulette]

i've heard of them only lasting about 180 3d flights.

i had a new one which went after around 200 flights...man was i

Cheers,

[DavidH]

Yes I have heard of them also only lasting 10-12 flights. But usually those were servos that the gyro gain was set higher than needed. I only set the gain high enough to hold the tail and no more.

David

[Yellowjacket]

After reading some of these posts I wanted to put in my two cents. First of all is this gyro coming back from a crash?
I have seen the sensor damaged causing drift and how old is the servo?

The 601 is really easy to set up, I have set up many for my self and other people.
Unless you want a faster pirouette set your rudder atv in you radio at 100 and make sure you don’t have any mixing programs enabled or revo mixing. Just run it in HH and in 3-D mode. Get you limits to as close as 100 as possible. If you can’t get it At 100 mechanically then it’s best to go over than under. Adjust your ball links so you have the same amount of throw both ways in the 601 atv set up as possible. Always leave just a hare of play at the end of the throws better to have a TINY bit of play than to bind the servo.

I always use 20 on the delay on off left and right. If you still have a drifting problem I have seen this from vibration issues or the kind of mounting tape that is used. If the machine appears to be smooth the sensor could still be picking up a high frequency vibration. Try changing out different kinds of mounting tape.

On my Statuses I use JR tape between the mounting plate and the sensor then I use CSM tape mounting the plate to the gyro mount. I put a small square of sticky back Velcro on the top of the sensor then I cut a notch in a small strip non sticky back Velcro to fit around the frame and slip it between the frame and servo and wrap it around the sensor. With the CSM tape on the bottom the sensor will move around a little to much so when I wrap the Velcro around it I pull it down on the CSM so it is adjustable, then I wrap another piece around the gyro mount itself. This really dampens the sensor from the vibration and in my opinion extends the sensor life. :wink:

I can see in the time it took me to type this out the servo question has been asked I got side tracked yesterday finished today I should have checked the post.600 flights!! If this doesn't work try changing it mine usually only last a season.With a new servo I run the gain @ 32 then as it wears I eventually max it at 37 after that if it gets to slippery I change it out
One thing I forgot to say:When you boot up the gyro make sure your servo is centered say 12o'clock or 6 o'clock or where ever center is achieved.If not find the appropriate hole in the wheel.

Keep us posted, hope this helps

Bill

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Hi

I remove the old tape and Aluplate under the gyro, and then mounted the gyro on one layer of the MA double tape.
It still does the "overcompensate" when stopping fast right piro.

Tehn I change to #D-mod ein the gyro, stille does the "overcompensation"
- but the piro and "traveling piro" are alot better, now I can fly forward and do some smooth piro´s - before in F3C mode, it did some unsmmoth travelling piros.......
I try ti raise the "Gain tracking " from 15 to 20 bit stille the same...

Yellowjacket FYI:
- the Rudder ATV ( in my 9Z) is 110/110% in idleup2
- the limit in the gyro-travel is 130/130%


I guess then, Next (had to stop because of problem with my YS91 Cab)time I will try to move the ball at the bellcrandk on the tail from the center hole and ti the inner hole - then I can reduse the limet in the gyro.
And trying out different "gain tracking" values......

Regarding the age of the Servo, it has hardly done any hard /soft 3D flying - but bad running engine and/or unbalanced heli, i geuss will also damage/waer the servo - ????

[Yellowjacket]

Knud
I think you need to get rid of all the tracking values and what ever else you may have changed outside the factory settings.Having your ATV in the gyro brain at 130 will not cause your problem.Set it up with the settings on my earlier post.When I said run it in HH I mean change it from CMT to AVCS mode, I never run it out of heading hold.If you have tried changing the mounting tape with different kinds of tape with these settings I think it's time to start swapping components.I have always found with problems like this sometimes it gets down to the process of elimination. from the amount of flights you have on that servo I would start there :wink:

Bill

[Knud Pedersen DENMARK]

Today, on the workbench I noticed:
If holding the transmitter Rudder stick at approx. ½ way of full travel to one of the sides, tailservo vibrates approx. 2-3°
It looks like this transmitter position, is where the gyro can´t decided (Correct) if the servo should move forwards or backwards in order to kept the “heading”…..

If switching to “NON HH” the servo does not do it…..
Id pulling in the linkage there servo do also not to it….

Is this normal?

ChopperKnud

[DavidH]

Knud,
You first posted about this problem Jan 2. 06. Now it is 3 months later and your making no head way with the problem. I would suggest doing as Bill suggested. Start swapping the compontents one item at a time and see if it makes a difference.

Do the servo first. See if that corrects the problem. Then do the sensor next, see if that corrects the problem. Then last try exchanging the amp and put in the same settings you have and see if that corrects the problem.

You can only do this if you another GY 601 or have a friend that will let you try there compontents. If swapping with a friend. Put your GY 601 on there heli and see if it does the same thing.

You will find out by doing all this if it is indeed the gyro or it is something on the heli causing it.

David

[Zilly]

Knud I think you need to start with the servo the vibrating you mentioned is not normal and this would certainly explain your problems.

z