HELI JIVE - VOLTAGE CUT-OFF

[HeliFX]

new the kontronik ESC's

my question is regarding voltage cut-off.

Is there no way to disable the voltage cut-off on a Heli Jive. None of the
10 MODE refer to it.
tried looking with that god awful PROGCARD but can't seem to find voltage cut-off
"OFF"

am I missing something is there custom / advance option or its just not possible.
If so .... Why ?
I prefer to have control and not the esc to decide to shut-off. I like my heli's in one piece and
don't care if I ruin a pack. A lot cheaper in my mind

[GimpyGolden]

You could set it so low you never reach the setting.
Also could try NiMx mode and see where that goes down to.

[Scottyb410]

Voltage, or Amperage?

[dl7uae]

[HeliFX]

dl7uae I'm going to take a closer look at your post again.

btw: I said ProgCard but i meant ProgDisc

Reason I'm asking did several test flights with Heli Jive and it kept going into low head speed and final on the last flight it cut out completely.
MY SETUP:

Goblin 570 - configured for 6S
GenAce packs ( 45C 5000 ) ( packs a little old and not the best but ok )
Motor: HKIII 4025 10P YY 1.5 mm 1080Kv
Heli Jive setup: Mode 1/4 ( first dozen flights ) ( kept going into low headspeed)
Heli Jive setup 2: Mode 1/4/9 (KSA) ( last dozen flights)
all flights had the lowest cut-off voltage !!!!

Does the H Jive not like 6S.
this esc is rated easily at 200 Amps !!!

[Scottyb410]

Your batteries came down OK.
I think this is a problem with Current - Not Voltage.
Therefore, it is the current you need to be insensitive, not the voltage.

Cheers
Scotty

[HeliFX]

Hey Scotty

Goblin 570 was grounded today. Not taking any chances.
well I know the Castle's have the "insensitive" option but not sure what the
equivalent is on the Heli Jive.

Have any thoughts on the post from user "dl7uae" ?

I guess I need a jlog to know what's really going on !!

This is the only thing that mentioned in the Heli Jive manual

4.4 Under voltage disconnection

Dependant on the mode set the HELI JIVE ESC
includes an automatic under voltage disconnection.
It slows the motor down if the battery pack is on low
capacity (2.8-3.2V/cell for LiPo 2.0V for LiFePo).

The motor can be switched on again, by pulling the
throttle into motor-off position and then pushing it
forward again.

As soon as the selected under voltage level
Receiver (Throttle- ! channel)
is reached the HELI JIVE starts slowing the
motor down. No further operation possible
until new battery is connected.

Please note the changed under voltage !
disconnection (2.0-3.2V/cell). Default: 2.8V/cell

Originally Posted by Scottyb410

Your batteries came down OK.
I think this is a problem with Current - Not Voltage.
Therefore, it is the current you need to be insensitive, not the voltage.

Cheers
Scotty

[taosgraveyard]

Originally Posted by Scottyb410

Your batteries came down OK.
I think this is a problem with Current - Not Voltage.
Therefore, it is the current you need to be insensitive, not the voltage.

Cheers
Scotty

I'd doesn't matter what the voltage was after the flight.
What matters is

While flying : whether the average of the cells was less than the per cell voltage cutoff


Happens all the time with old batteries that : moves during flight can cause serious sag in voltage, and you get a cutoff. After autorotation and disconnection battery cell voltage looks ok...

What matters is what happens under load

[Scottyb410]

Interesting thought.

So you are saying that the current demand is causing a voltage Sag.
Therefore the the Heli-Jive sees the Sag as a low battery and cuts-off.

I'm not sure really how to test this.

HeliFX winds his own motors. He also flies rather "aggressively" so we know the current demand is likely high.
I guess a J-Log download would end all of the guessing..

If it is Voltage oriented, we can drop the cutoff to the minimum in the software.

Scotty

[dl7uae]

If it is Voltage oriented, we can drop the cutoff to the minimum in the software.

Switch mode 9 (LiPo monitor) off.

If it still shuts off then the battery for the garbage.

Each battery has certain inner resistance (IR). If current flows then voltage drops, U=I*R. A weak battery has high IR.

[HeliFX]

checked IR - on average each cell is about 2.1 ...not great but not that bad !

I've done plenty of rewind motor for other pilots and they all vary in make and design.
those who used Jive / kosmik have not experienced any issue.
Kosmik had issue only because of the old firmware had a peak cap
At best going to MODE 9 (KSA) has solved any weirdness.
User stolla mostly uses his own rewind motors. No issue's except for the Align for
some reason. I found using KSA fixed any issue.
Pyro motor naturally don't need that mode.
He's has data log posted with 200Amp on the Jive

dl7uae ok I getting a little confused this ESC in question is a HELI JIVE v13 firmware.
MODE 9 is (KSA)
I think MODE 9 on the JIVE is (LIPO)

some more thoughts. Possibly getting head slipping on my 570 could also cause this.
Highly unlikely but I shall check if its slipping.

Gimpy suggested to try MODE 1/4/5 then 6 ... any thoughts on this ?

other option borrow a new pack and try !

[Scottyb410]

Ralph

dl7uae makes an excellent point - those batteries of yours that come down so hot you can't touch them could be the problem. His point is that as the internal battery resistance goes up, and the current remains constant, the voltage has to sag (Ohms law).

That fancy new charger you have should show you the IR (Internal resistance) of each cell as you charge them. If not, mine will - we can test it this weekend if need be.

Scotty

[HeliFX]

hmmm yes makes sense what your saying.
yes that fancy charger of mine does measure IR.

not sure of its accuracy .

this 570 will become 12S pretty soon.
6S really make those packs hard let alone your gear.
I sure hitting those peak amp more often under heavy 3D.

ESC however not even warm !

despite all this. I really like the governor on K esc. Really nice stuff best I've used to date. YGE comes close !
Really want this too work

[Scottyb410]

If the IR is not the problem, then it has to be amperage draw causing the voltage sag. (providing it is a voltage cut-off in the first place).

Perhaps that motor is a bit too aggressive for the 6s world (and the way you fly). That could explain why the battery is smoking hot - it just can't keep up with the current demand.
Perhaps 7s and a new pinion?

[HeliFX]

aggressive yes

I say Heli Jive is too sensitive and just trying to protect itself.
most other esc like YGE or Hobbywing I just disabled cut-off voltage and
worked fine.
Mind u I putting a lot strain on my packs.

lots things to try out but definitely going 12S much more elegant setup !

yeah 7S would have given more room to breathe for sure

[dl7uae]

dl7uae ok I getting a little confused this ESC in question is a HELI JIVE v13 firmware.
MODE 9 is (KSA)
I think MODE 9 on the JIVE is (LIPO)

You're right, my fault.

Dependant on the mode set the HELI JIVE ESC
includes an automatic under voltage disconnection.

Huh?! Following the table this function is active in EVERY mode. ("nice" English anyway..)

The motor can be switched on again, by pulling the throttle into motor-off position and then pushing it forward again.
...
As soon as the selected under voltage level is reached the HELI JIVE starts slowing the motor down. No further operation possible until new battery is connected.

Contradictory!

The motor can be switched on again, by pulling the throttle into motor-off position and then pushing it forward again.

This sentence is not found in the corresponding German text....

[HeliFX]

Exactly

[GimpyGolden]

Originally Posted by HeliFX

Gimpy suggested to try MODE 1/4/5 then 6 ... any thoughts on this ?

other option borrow a new pack and try !

My suggestion was do a mode 1 reset then redo either mode 4,5 or 6.

You hadn't mentioned in pm the packs were that hot. Me thinks that's your issue.
Wish I hadn't lost my JLog last week, would have shown us all.

[HeliFX]

no no I did.

esc and motor is fine in fact the esc not even warm.
packs do get hot but it depends how hard I fly.

I think this is more to do with 6S config as the issue which I know.
12S better option without a doubt.

just wanted the option of turning off that voltage cut-off.
I guess this is a good measure on K's part for warranty reasons

provided this is the real issue I'm facing. Most other esc worked !

I think 570 with 6S is more for sport flying
does help that I have god hungry motor that just wants power

[HeliFX]

dl7uae

Where can one pick-up a Jlog ?
What's the closest shop in Canada better yet Toronto to be exact ?