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Main Forum - Helicopter Talk R/C Helicopters and the people who fly them. VENDOR TOPICS DO NOT GO HERE. Full Scale Heli threads go in OT please |
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03-09-2016, 01:50 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Wanting to get into Nitro
Hey. I have only had battery powered helis and cars, but I want to get into nitro just to have one. I know NOTHING about nitro so I'm doing my research now. What is the main pros and cons from electric and nitro amd what would be a good first nitro heli in ya'lls opinion?
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03-09-2016, 06:08 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Pros
Flight time - Typically 2 flights vs 1 on electric. I have to stop after 4 min on my electrics which is about the time I get in the groove. With nitro's I go for about 8 min. Because of this you will learn faster. You are not racing a clock to practice something. Ease of setup - At the field (just fuel and go), I've actually timed myself. It took me 6 min from the time I pulled up to being in the air. Typically not longer than 10 min. And this is with virtually no prep time charging. You only have to charge your flight pack. With electrics you have to plan ahead. Canopy - I mention this one because you don't have to take canopy off between flights. I use a 5000mah lipo flight pack which is good for 5 flights. Big smoke trail - good for orientation Much safer in pit - Typically there is nothing I will do that makes me uncomfortable. Even if you have a hot start you can hold it and let the clutch slip. Electrics, if something quirky happens you have the full force of the blades to deal with. Cons Engine quirks - the engine is out of tune, won't start, runs weird and all these things pop up due to normal wear and tear. Some common pains for me; muffler header leaking, tank pressure not holding, regulator clogged, fuel line bad, check valve sticking. These are just overall maintenance issues for nitro. Clutch - requires changing periodically. Power - Electrics can develop more power. To me it is not really an issue because the electrics can do way more than i can. OS-105's can really do everything I am capable of doing and more. Fuel cost - fuel is expensive, but so are good batteries. Myths Cleanup issues - You don't have to clean a thing. When you are finished, just throw the heli back in your truck and go. I wipe down when I have time. I wipe my electrics too. You should be doing something like that just to perform inspection. Tuning - I hear this sometimes as if this is something you have to constantly mess with. I tune it and leave it alone. I go to the field time and again not touching anything on the needles. Noise - This could be a pro or con depending on the person. Electrics and make some hellacious scary loud noise anyway. Those are some of my thoughts. Those that like nitro will speak favorably and those that don't will list all the things they don't like. In summary - The biggest issue IMO is flight time and stick time you will get with a nitro over electric. No question on that. The biggest down side will be scratching your head when the engine has issues. Those issues can be a pain and frustrating especially when you are not around anyone that can help you. I've usually been able to read on HF and other forums when I have issues. Keep in mind, electrics have their own issues too, just not as many.
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Marc Norman, OK - Synergy N7, TREX 700N DFC, TSA 700N, TSA 600N, Trex 550, Trex 500 ESP (FBL), 450L, RCHN - 700 |
03-09-2016, 06:15 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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Join Date: May 2014
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I fly both nitro and electric, they both have pluses and minuses. One thing I love about nitro is the disk loading, it's so light that you don't need huge amounts of power like electric. All this adds up to a great platform to learn/practice autorotations.
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03-09-2016, 06:30 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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My nitro experience is fixed wing, not heli. I would agree that engine issues are the biggest down side, especially for someone new to IC engines, or who doesn't fly them regularly. But if you're flying at a club with other nitro guys, that shouldn't be an issue.
I have never liked the mess, but that's me. Worth giving it a try, especially if you have a local club to help get you going. |
03-09-2016, 10:30 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Avoca, Iowa
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Synergy N5c
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Gabriel Sandoval "NitroGabe" soXos USA Flight Team, Team JR PROPO Team Scorpion, Team YS engines USA Bavarian Demon Flight Team #HIGHONHELIS |
03-09-2016, 10:34 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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N5c and an OS 55 is not a bad way to start. I have a ys60 in mine, but I blew one up so I'd recommend the OS if you're just getting started.
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03-09-2016, 11:16 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: DC
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There are many that have sworn off Nitro, but I find it immensely enjoyable. The noise, the smoke getting swirled around in the blades, the smell etc. It really hits a lot of your senses and makes the flying experience that much more visceral. It takes some time to learn how to properly set up a nitro and then tune it properly - I would also suggest starting with a smaller 0.50 size nitro you can learn on. Learn how to tune, starting sequences, etc. You'll get more flights per gallon due to fuel consumption etc. Then when you're ready you can step it up to a 700 with a big bore motor to fully experience the joys of nitro. You really want to have your ducks in a row and be familiar with tuning, filling, draining, storing, etc before you move up to a big machine with an expensive motor like that. It pays to have a smaller nitro trainer to learn these things on.
The nitro flying experience is also quite different compared to electric. Aside what's already been mentioned, with electrics, the first couple minutes of flight are when the machine is its most capable on fully charged packs. Most people don't warm up their thumbs until the end of a flight. So as you're just getting comfortable the machine is getting weaker as battery power diminishes. With Nitro, you get longer flight times and as you burn off fuel the machine is getting lighter and lighter so the result is the exact opposite as electric - you get a much more nimble, responsive machine toward the end of your flights which really allows you to get aggressive as you get warmed up. Nitro will really teach you how to manage collective well, which will improve your flying all together. And lastly, Nitro's tend to auto extremely well due, again, to the low weight at the end of flights. The disk loading is really very good allowing for a lot of "hang time" when doing autos.
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03-09-2016, 11:55 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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I had a big reply all typed up last nite but eight before I hit submit, my power went of.........lol.
anyways, my thoughts are thus. I started out with electric. a trex 450 se v2. learned to hover on it. once I got my first nitro, it rarely saw any air time! there is something about the noise and smoke......it makes you feel like you have a serious machine! when I go to the field, I take my heli(s), radio, gallon of fuel, and starter and I am good to go for the day. engine tuning, in my experience, is a non issue. I have an os 55 hz-r in my heli, and I have rarely, if ever, touched the needles. in fact, they may still be at the factory settings! there are a few good videos here on helifreak on tuning a nitro engine, but even if you get 'lost', returning the needles to the factory setting should result in an engine that fires up easily and gets you in the air. setting up the fuel system is pretty easy. I have a line coming from the fuel pickup to a 't'. the through leg of the 't' goes to the carb and the take off has a short piece of tubing with a plug. to fill the tank, pull the plug and pinch off the line to the carb. easy peezy. the other line coming from the fuel tank goes to the pipe. the pipe feeds part of the exhaust gas into the tank to pressurize it, thus pushing fuel to the carb. I would recommend grabbing the align super starter. it is a self contained unit that uses a 3s 2200 mah lipo. I tried a few different starters before I sprung for it, and none of them worked as well. all other starters use an external battery(12v field battery, big lipo....etc). the align is a slick, all in one, compact unit and it spins over my big gasser with no problems. another thing id suggest is a switchglo. that is a little unit that can either use a channel on your radio or a push button on the heli to light your glow plug. I have mine programmed to a channel on my radio. when I want to start my heli, I simply flip a switch and hit the starter. traditional glow igniters use something like a c battery with an extension that locks on to the glow plug. you clip it on, start the engine, then take it off to fly. I use this with nitro cars, as its easy to access the glow plug, but with helis, the glow plug is usually down under the front of the frames and most of the time not all that easy to get to. the switch glo makes it super easy and convenient. ive never really had an issue with cleanup. maybe wipe the heli down with some paper towels after a day flying. no big deal. I store my helis in the house. no smells or fumes. good thing about nitro is that all the shafts and bearings are constantly being lubed! one thing to note about storage is that I always store my nitros with a full fuel tank. after you are done flying, the tank is full of exhaust fumes that will deteriorate the clunk quickly. the best way to purge those is to just fill the tank. like I said above, I use a clip on the line to the carb to prevent flooding. I have a fury 55 that I absolutely LOVE, but unfortunately parts supply is a bit inconvenient. miniature aircraft sort of went out of business and moved to Germany. so you can still get parts, but they take about a week. www.ronlund.com is the us distributor and looks like he is taking wait list orders for new min air kits, but I dunno how its gonna all shake out. so, like duddoc and smwht said, ive heard really good things about the synergys. if I was buying a new heli today, it would be an n5c. they look really solid and appear to have good part support. there is nothing like the smell of nitro exhaust! once your see your heli rising out of a big cloud of smoke, hearing that engine hum, you will be hooked! take a look in finless bobs tech room and go through the nitro builds. youll get a good general idea of what goes into putting one of these machines together, even if you don't end up with any of those specific helis.
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i have some helicopters and a box to control them with satellites es pro tractus! keep calm and don't panic |
03-09-2016, 01:42 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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I think they covered the pro's and con's pretty well. I'll make a recommendation for a first nitro heli
Trex 600N-Find one on the classifieds for a good price, fly the crap out of it. It's a great heli with very few issues and it's reliable. I will say that I like the N5C better but the part prices are cheaper with the Align and everyone carries them. I am very happy with my 600N and it's waiting for decent weather to get busy.
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"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." GAUI NX7, TREX 600N, Goblin 570, Gaui X3L, DX7G2, AMA#970963 Citizen 420 |
03-09-2016, 06:57 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Thanks guys. You gave me some very good and detailed answers and I appreciate it all. Tax time is upon us so I might just get one!!!
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03-09-2016, 06:59 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Subscribing to this because I'm in a similar situation (or well probably will be next year). What about a Gaui NX4?
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03-09-2016, 07:03 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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I really enjoy flying nitro helis myself, I'll probably continue to own one for as long as is practical. If you've owned nitro cars and were turned off by the experience, as I was, nitro helis are a whole different animal. They are much easier to tune and the mess is WAY less because they don't run around on the ground. The only thing I don't like anymore is the lack of options in the marketplace, there just aren't many nitro models anymore and even fewer that I'd like to own.
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03-09-2016, 07:24 PM | #13 (permalink) | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's hope so anyway.
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"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." GAUI NX7, TREX 600N, Goblin 570, Gaui X3L, DX7G2, AMA#970963 Citizen 420 |
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03-09-2016, 07:44 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Quote:
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03-09-2016, 07:47 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Gaui just released a kit to transplant a .55 into the NX4. Should make it a rocket. Really like my NX4 just the way it is with the .37 and 430 blades. Don't think they're dropping it any time soon.
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03-09-2016, 08:07 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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I too wanted a nitro, and got one a few months ago. I still haven't flown it, due to the winter, and having to basically rebuild the whole thing as the seller wasn't completely honest about the condition (or maybe just not aware). This forced me to learn everything, and experience what a pain in the arse nitro can be, before even getting to fly it.
There was a good bit to learn. Now, since I've had to tear the entire thing apart and rebuild the whole motor, I've learned most of the ins and outs. The only thing I haven't learned yet is how to tune the carb, though Iv'e watched a few videos, but it's because I haven't flown it yet. Just know what you're getting yourself into. I have no doubt that I'll love it after watching others fly them. The smoke, sound, and smell is definitely exciting. But be prepared to learn a lot. You'll need to learn how to build a motor (it's really not complicated though, just that initial learning curve), because you're going to either blow one up, or have to rebuild it at some point for regular maintenance. Electric helis require no motor maintenance, except maybe replacing bearings once in a long while. There's not really anything to go wrong with electric motors, where as nitro motors can be delicate- you might be running it too lean and fry it in one run without even knowing. There's not much room for error. And then, you'll find yourself in the humorous position of baking the engine in your oven at home, because that's what you have to do to remove the crankshaft bearings as part of regular maintenance. Throttle setup was interesting to learn as well, seemed confusing and complicated at first, but now it seems like a really basic concept and isn't hard at all. Last, as others have said, nitro is expensive. Very expensive. Comparing to high end batteries is b/s, because 1) you don't need high end batteries. You can fly electrics just fine off of cheap zippy or turnigy batteries, and they will last you at least 100-200 flights, maybe more and you can get a set of two 6s for $130- roughly the cost of a case of nitro that will last you..36 flights, or in electric terms, 72 flights. One gallon of 30% nitro is like $34. The cheapest I could find was Torco from ebay- a case was $125 shipped to my house. Expect 6 flights/ gallon with a 90 sized heli, which will equal about 12 flights with an electric time wise. If you already have charging equipment and batteries for your electric, this comparison is even pointless, because having both nitro and electric doubles the cost since you are flying both, and not comparing which is cheaper if you only have one or the other. In summary..there's a lot more setup and maintenance..a LOT more. And a lot more than can go wrong. But they're just so cool to watch And you can get scented fuel additives and make the field smell like raspberries, pina coladas, or other scents you wouldn't expect to come from a helicopter ;]
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Trex 700L spirit pro / Trex 700n spirit pro/ Trex 550x spirit pro / Goblin Black Nitro 700 |
03-09-2016, 08:30 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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[QUOTE=Thestructured;6895490
And then, you'll find yourself in the humorous position of baking the engine in your oven at home, because that's what you have to do to remove the crankshaft bearings as part of regular maintenance. /QUOTE] My girlfriend's head almost exploded when she caught me baking a engine in the oven. Pick up a heat gun or a cheap toaster oven from a yard sale to keep the peace.
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SYNERGY N5C, Xpert, VBAR NEO, ROTOR RAGE 30%, O.S.55HZ-R SYNERGY E5s Rail 626/106,Scorpion 4035 560kv,Hobbywing ,Vbar NEO,Xpert Vcontrol N556 Xpert R2's OS Powered Nitro Beast TEAM SYNERGY FIELD REP XPERT TEAM PILOT |
03-09-2016, 08:35 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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Check out an audacity models pantera P6....very versatile, USA support, tough as hell! Probably the cheapest option for nitro too
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Say "Ya" to da U.P eh!?! I drive WAY too fast to worry about cholesterol................ |
03-09-2016, 08:57 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
ive replaced many a bearing set in my nitro engines. nothing to it and it takes about as long as it takes your oven to reach 350 degrees plus 10 or 15 minutes. there really isn't much to these little engines. take the carb off, unbolt the head, the piston liner slides right out. pop the connecting rod off the piston and the piston comes right out. then the crank slides right out and you are left with an empty crankcase with only the bearings. after about 15 minutes in the oven, a light tap gets both bearings out. pop the new ones in and reassemble and your ready to go! ive not noticed any residual odor from putting the case in the oven, either. there are some vids on you tube that take you step by step. its no biggie at all.
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i have some helicopters and a box to control them with satellites es pro tractus! keep calm and don't panic |
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03-10-2016, 07:21 PM | #20 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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Nitro is seriously awesome. Fuel and go! I get 8 mins per tank on my x50 running a ys56sr at 2100 rpm.
So light, so much fun, smells awesome, requires basically zero maintainence. Tuning is easy, just need a little experience but there are plenty of excelIent videos to help with that. I generally crash before anything ever gets worn out. I fly electrics too which are sweet but I reckon everyone needs a nitro in their fleet. I love it so much I have collected many parts and spares to keep it flying forever.
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Urukay 3 blade, E700, X50F Titan , Goblin 500, Goblin Nitro, Oxy 2 FE, Oxy 2 215, Futaba & Frsky |
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