Thinking about a Diabolo 700

[arieli25]

I had a diabolo and ran it with a gmauro pyro 700. It was very agile and aggressive heli. So smooth on spool up, even smoother then my TDR at the time. Very quick heli too.

I can understand all the comments made on the helis, ive owned most of them. I do believe some helis just feel more connected when doing 3D, but none do everything "best"
logo 600sx is one of the best all rounders, the diabolo is bigger and a lot more heli to handle.

Diabolo is a quality heli and I doubt youd be disappointed. If you are curious to try it then give it a go. Its a proven heli.

And in the end these are helis, whatever you buy even a banshee, we still always look to our next purchase and something new to try

[smsodhi]

My comments about the Banshee have touched the odd nerve. I am not sorry for making it as the context in which I made it has been misinterpreted, it was to compare the helis together (as a group like brother and sister) and say that all helis have issues. And to continually pick on the gear train of the Diabolo as a reason not to consider it is getting rather tedious.

[TommyBear]

Originally Posted by smsodhi

My comments about the Banshee have touched the odd nerve. I am not sorry for making it as the context in which I made it has been misinterpreted, it was to compare the helis together (as a group like brother and sister) and say that all helis have issues. And to continually pick on the gear train of the Diabolo as a reason not to consider it is getting rather tedious.

Well said.

With the exception of a Banshee, I've either built, owned or setup most of the Helis aforementioned. All I can say is you won't go wrong with a Diabolo.

It has a very strong frame, robust drivetrain and excellent disc loading. The German engineering and quality of the finish is a big bonus too.

How aggressive or how sedate it will fly all depends on your setup and components.

Good luck with your decision.

[BustedRaptor77]

Originally Posted by smsodhi

My comments about the Banshee have touched the odd nerve. I am not sorry for making it as the context in which I made it has been misinterpreted, it was to compare the helis together (as a group like brother and sister) and say that all helis have issues. And to continually pick on the gear train of the Diabolo as a reason not to consider it is getting rather tedious.

I totally understood your comment about the Banshee, but why do you want Gerd to raise the price of the swashplate?

[smsodhi]

Originally Posted by BustedRaptor77

I totally understood your comment about the Banshee, but why do you want Gerd to raise the price of the swashplate?

I considered this after posting, but it has infuriated me so much i wanted to make the point.

[Raptorapture]

Originally Posted by michalp

I've flown a Banshee and it flies really nice but it's a bit lame at cyclic inputs.^^

I wish to someday fly well enough to test the veracity of that statement. So far at 2,100 rpm i cannot say things were lame

Originally Posted by michalp

As I said,
it flies nice and feels light in air ( I LOVE light Helis )
But it was a bit slow of center on cyclic but the collective response was great,probably due the head design.
Maybe the DH Blade are just so boring ^^
In fact ,the owner of the Banshee I tried was Michael Streit, so one of those guys who flies 3D with this Heli and as I said it wasn't agile enough for me
But every pilot has his own preferences.

I know this comparison will be a bit inappropriate

But put the same setup ( Servos,FBL,Blades,Power System ,also same FBL setup)

in a TDR and then in a Raptor e700 or other heli which is designed for 3D and it will be more agile than the Henseleit..


@John I have tried to strip the x7 gear with 2500 RPM and also 13,5 ° Pitch in Speedwalls and I wasn't able to do that...
Maybe a single-stage gear is better for 3D and 2stage for speed...

Two points here. Firstly, the around centre movement will be influenced by the gearing ratio from servo to swashplate which it appears to me the push pull of the E700 FBL has more of than a direct drive such as Diabolo, TDR or Banshee.

Secondly, I think you may be correct re susceptibility of two stage vs single stage to stripping. It seemingly shouldn't due to a smaller difference in gearing at each stage but I think the cumulative gap allows for more force on engaging and disengaging of gear meshes.

[JadAl_87]

200 flights in a dusty, warm, humid weather and still no issue that requires/asking for any maintenance. This heli combines quality, performance, style and manages to maintain a "reasonable" price. Most important it is accessible to any one who is willing to buy it. People can argue that a banshee is "better", but also keep in mind a banshee is 4 times more expensive and it is a limited production heli.
So yes, go for it.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by JadAl_87

200 flights in a dusty, warm, humid weather and still no issue that requires/asking for any maintenance. This heli combines quality, performance, style and manages to maintain a "reasonable" price. Most important it is accessible to any one who is willing to buy it. People can argue that a banshee is "better", but also keep in mind a banshee is 4 times more expensive and it is a limited production heli.
So yes, go for it.

I definitely want you around if I ever decide to sell my Banshee

[craigdieselmac]

I would love to re-home a banshee... my wallet would not though

[jcflyer]

FWIW I have both the Banshee and the Diabolo!!! They are both high quality machines, is one better than the other that is a matter of personal prefrence. I love to fly both of them the Diabolo however is my favorite machine for all around flying, when I fly the Banshee it is usually speed flying. So depending on what type of flying you are doing may determine your prefrence!!! In my opinion the Diabolo is a better machine than all others out there that I have flown with the exception of the Banshee. They are just two different machines, put simply the Diabolo is bigger and smoother the Banshee is a little smaller and quicker or nimble as some would say, can't go wrong with either of them!!!

[Mercuriell]

It should be pretty clear that helis from Banshee, Minicopter and Henseleit are all superlative but each has their own character. Many, myself included, have owned and loved all three so there really isnt a question of which is better.

The OP really wanted to know if the Diabolo was suitable for 3D, I think the answer is a qualified yes with the caveat that it isn't, like most designs, unbreakable in extreme stress moves with high power motors and full range pitch. I have a 4530 Scorp in my Diabolo with Radix v2 FBL 710 blades and 12' pitch and it really leaves nothing lacking in my, or better 3D pilots' hands ....

[OverTemp]

Originally Posted by Raptorapture

Secondly, I think you may be correct re susceptibility of two stage vs single stage to stripping. It seemingly shouldn't due to a smaller difference in gearing at each stage but I think the cumulative gap allows for more force on engaging and disengaging of gear meshes.

It's pretty simple really. The last stage gear experiences far higher force than any single stage gear. The head needs a given amount of torque delivered. Torque = Force*Distance. If you cut the distance in half (small main gear) then the force on each tooth doubles. Hence, the need for a tall gear. The gear must be thicker for the teeth to handle the force. A large diameter pinion is also required so a large portion of the slanted tooth can be engaged at any given time.

[smsodhi]

Originally Posted by OverTemp

It's pretty simple really. The last stage gear experiences far higher force than any single stage gear. The head needs a given amount of torque delivered. Torque = Force*Distance. If you cut the distance in half (small main gear) then the force on each tooth doubles. Hence, the need for a tall gear. The gear must be thicker for the teeth to handle the force. A large diameter pinion is also required so a large portion of the slanted tooth can be engaged at any given time.

Well now we are getting somewhere. Thanks to this discussion we can now start to understand why in some hands the gear can strip and not in other hands. Those used to doing the high stress maneuvers with one stage gears expect to transfer this into a two staged heli. The Diabolo may be chosen to purchase with the belief that it can be flown with the same technique as the one stage geared helis. Then because there is room for large motors these are put in, appropriate for speed but perhaps not for 3D.
The Diabolo when geared properly and flown with a slightly different technique, with being just that little bit smoother on the initial change in movements in hard situations can do all the maneuvers possible. The sudden instant aggressive changes may kill the gear. The skill will come in feeding in the power just that little bit more gradually, think of the F1 drivers needing to feed power smoothly, If i tried to drive one, I would be spinning off the road all the time. I can do stupid aggressive pitch pumps, and still do them when tuning the tail, but I feed the power in smoothly to avoid the sudden jolt to the gear.

So it will handle anything with the appropriate technique.
It is the skill of flying the heli through maneuvers and not pushing it through maneuvers using brute force (being large motors or technique) that breeds respect.

On another note i think the OP has run for the hills. Honestly were not usually like this all the time, but at least it has been a constructive discussion, mostly. Thank you

[trillian]

Originally Posted by smsodhi

The sudden instant aggressive changes may kill the gear. The skill will come in feeding in the power just that little bit more gradually, think of the F1 drivers needing to feed power smoothly, If i tried to drive one, I would be spinning off the road all the time. I can do stupid aggressive pitch pumps, and still do them when tuning the tail, but I feed the power in smoothly to avoid the sudden jolt to the gear.

I think that, at least in large part, comes down to the governor settings. If you think about it, we're not usually controlling the power delivery what we're directly controlling is the load (in the form of collective and cyclic and the G forces of the maneuver being flown).

The motors available today 'can' strip ANY gear you can throw at them, with the 4540s and 850MXs etc. the potential torque is just insane. So it's really up to the governor to deliver the power with just that little bit of slew rate so that it doesn't try to overpower the drivetrain.

The human side of it would be collective management, but basically if you want massive 'pop' in the collective it's just a matter of running a high headspeed so there's lots of inertia to work with. I would think with the right governor settings you could do the most aggressive moves you can think of and not strip gears.

[smsodhi]

Absolutely

I think though that most leave their ESC gov settings at stock, and the stock settings are on the softer side for safety.

[trillian]

Originally Posted by smsodhi

Absolutely

I think though that most leave their ESC gov settings at stock, and the stock settings are on the softer side for safety.

Yeah I'm just thinking out loud that perhaps some governors could be too aggressive and maybe with slightly lower gain settings or whatever 'ramp up' function, if it's adjustable, could be softened.

For me it's not an issue because I fly like the proverbial old lady on her way to church :-)