206b Double Sidekick Ticket help

[cajkat1073]

I am looking for a new charger but don't want to break the bank. This combo from Progressive comes with 2 icharger 206bs. I figure I could charge 4 6s 5000 on 1 while charging 4 3s 2200 on the other. Is this going to be enough and how long would it take to charge batteries?

[Slyster]

did you read the charger/power supply sticky here on the charger forum?

You could save money and get more power by getting one 306b and a feathermerchantrc.com 24v47A power supply. This is my home charging setup and with parallel cables I can charge up to 6 packs at a time. 30A output. This can do a couple of 6s5000 packs in 15 mins.

I should make a video of my home charging setup.. but here is my main setup in my truck at the field. Using the 4010B.

iCharger 4010 Duo. A little tour of Chernobyl (0 min 56 sec)

[Gregor99]

If you are charging 6s 5000 packs, the smallest charger I would go with is the 306b. But I would not feel good about. it Main reason is the balance current is only 500ma. Not enough to handle the breakin of the modern unbalanced packs. The 206b will give you a 1c charge rate charging 4 6s 5000 which takes about an hour. But that is only if the two supplies are wired in series, not sure they are. Also the 206b only has 350ma of balancing bypass. If any of your large packs have balance issues during break-in, it could take several hours to resolve on each pack.

Stepping up to the Powerlab6 gives you a bit more wattage, but more importantly 1 amp of balancing power. That would address the balancing issue. If you really want dual port functionality (which I find VERY useful) check out the 308Dou. The FMA Dual Powerlab8 when it comes out is another excellent dual port charger. Albeit not a "budget" charger by any stretch.

[cajkat1073]

If I were to get a 4010 duo and put it in a case what is a cheap power supply that won't trip a 15amp breaker on 110v?

[Slyster]

This.. link below.. 24v47A. It won't trip a circuit... I use it at full output all the time. You won't be able to get full output for the 4010 Duo.. but you will still have plenty of charging power at home.

To get the most of the Duo you would need 3 or 4 power supplies in series and a higher amp home power breaker circuit... (or 2-3 deep cycles like I use!)

www.feathermerchantrc.com

[cajkat1073]

Originally Posted by Slyster

This.. link below.. 24v47A. It won't trip a circuit... I use it at full output all the time. You won't be able to get full output for the 4010 Duo.. but you will still have plenty of charging power at home.

To get the most of the Duo you would need 3 or 4 power supplies in series and a higher amp home power breaker circuit... (or 2-3 deep cycles like I use!)

www.feathermerchantrc.com

Thanks for the information was just looking at his site. Is this the setup you use?
24V47A Plug-n-Play Supply

[audacity]

1500watts is about the max for household stuff.
As someone said for 20 bucks more,( the 308b rocks. If your budget is set; I would do a 308 or 3010b and a 106b as the second charger. I have owned many chargers and the icharger not only has great programable features and is very accurate. But it also has the ability to balance packs ultra fast. I really need to buy a smaller 106b myself for portability and my smaller <450 helis. No matter which icharger combo you get; you'll most likely hang onto it for the quality.
I really like having the ability to look at the real time charging/discharging data on a computer from the icharger. That way you can compare the battery's health over a period of time.

Happy charge'n


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[audacity]

One more huge benefit the ichargers have over the rest is the ability to discharge batteries at the highest rates. This is great tool for trouble shooting a questionable battery pack! This way you can monitor, graph, overlay, and store data to compare the performance over time against itself and or other packs. I just got a bad batch of packs. Since I have the data printed out, it's a very cut and dry warranty issue for the manufacture to honor.

Cheers mate


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[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by audacity

One more huge benefit the ichargers have over the rest is the ability to discharge batteries at the highest rates.

If you own an iCharger is best not to use the built-in discharger. If you need reliable discharging with logging, an FMA product is what you want.

Originally Posted by mrforsyth

I agree that it should be able to handle the high power discharge but there is a body of evidence that is growing on a weekly basis that some cannot and have been damaged as a result. As such, the best advice is to stop using the function that is presumably causing the damage until Junsi states with a reasonable degree of certainty that it's entirely safe to do so without placing the charger at risk.

As far as I have been able to determine in all of the reports that I have read on the multitude of chargers that have burned up while discharging, the FMA PowerLabs are the only ones that have demonstrated negligible risk when discharging at maximum discharge power.
Mark

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...01512&page=114

[audacity]

Originally Posted by Gregor99

If you own an iCharger is best not to use the built-in discharger. If you need reliable discharging with logging, an FMA product is what you want.



http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...01512&page=114

I don't get that. And the ichargers default internal default temp shutdown is set lower(50) than the FMA...and it runs cooler on regen than using the unit itself to discharge rather than past it along to another source. Unless the source/resistance is not capable / able to take the discharge?! If the power came out of the source to charge, it should go back in...I use the units external 2nd TC to set the parameter for my external power supply too. Set the fan to automatic in the charger. Using the feature is not a common practice tho. It's really only used as a tool. I just use the inits internal storage feature 99% of the time. I like the FMA's and ichargers over every other charger out there;, I just like the synchronous balance charging capabilities of the icharger's adjustability better. Ya can't go wrong with either


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[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by audacity

I just like the synchronous balance charging capabilities of the icharger's adjustability better.

Please explain this comment.

[audacity]

High power, high current, high-performance power conversion circuit. The iCharger series uses advanced Synchronous buck-boost DC/DC converter technology with an output conversion efficiency that can reach over 90%. This not only saves power and reduces heat build up but also makes the charger more compact and conveniently mobile.

the iCharger can monitor the voltage of individual cells and adjust the input current fed into each cell to normalize the voltage .

U can adjust those levels, the accuracy, and when it actually takes place while balance charging.

How's that? Just let me know if we're get'n a little off the OP's subject?.


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[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by audacity

High power, high current, high-performance power conversion circuit. The iCharger series uses advanced Synchronous buck-boost DC/DC converter technology with an output conversion efficiency that can reach over 90%. This not only saves power and reduces heat build up but also makes the charger more compact and conveniently mobile.

the iCharger can monitor the voltage of individual cells and adjust the input current fed into each cell to normalize the voltage .

U can adjust those levels, the accuracy, and when it actually takes place while balance charging.

How's that? Just let me know if we're get'n a little off the OP's subject?.


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Most modern chargers use synchronous buck boost DC-DC converters. Its pretty much a requirement for any charger over 20 amps.

Depending which models we are talking about the iChargers approach to balancing far from state of the art. For example, the default configuration on all iChargers before the 4010 is to start balancing once one cell hits 4.2v. The balancing method pulses the high cell until the others catch up. The balancing start time can be changed but only has three settings. Its not advisable to change it due the low available balance current. Because of this, the charger may slow the charge rate prematurely and cause a slower over all charge time than the default.

If you have a large pack (like 5000) the balance behavior will not be sufficient to correct balance issues in a timely fashion. The pack may need to sit on the charger for hours or the user may need to rig up a 1s charge lead and balance each cell separately.

The FMA method uses 1 amp of balancing power and starts balancing when the first cell reaches 3.8v. The balance current is proportional so it can be controlled by the balancer anywhere between 0 and 100% (1 amp). The balance start voltage can be infinitely configured from 3.3v to 4.1v. The current can be adjusted from 1am down to 100ma in increments of 50ma. The balance method can be changed from proportional to the pulsing method used by the iChargers and others.

Because of the high current and proportional flexibility of the balance circuit, starting the balancing at 3.8v does not slow the overall charge time down at all. In fact, in most cases the pack is perfectly balanced by the time the cells reach 4.1v. Depending the pack this could result in significantly faster charge times without increasing the charge rate (current).

With the 4010 and 308Duo, iCharger has upped the balance current to 1.2 amps and lower the start voltage. I don't know if they have transitioned to proportional control yet. But I do know the configuration options for the balancer is still not as flexible as the Powerlabs.

[audacity]

The ichargers current strategy As an example u can select 8a charge on a pack. All the cells r 3.8 except for 1 which is 3.85. The 3.85 cell is held up and the 8a is still going to the others. Many times on a good matched pack that happens only a few times and in the beginning and they will all remain the same thru the rest of the charge. A poorly matched pack will constantly be waiting for cells to equalize throughout the cycle.

I totally agree that the fma is everything the icharger are. The ichargers seem to have come out with some of that tech first. My understanding is the cell voltage calibration is set in a fma from the factory. ALL of the features between the two is splitting hairs. I have yet to own anything other than the early cellpro's from fma and the smaller TP's. when I switched to ichargers for reasons that may no longer exist as many chargers are catching up in technology. Tho using the same battery on a TP doesn't balance as fast. I've yet to see a puffed pack from solely using an icharger. In fact I been given a fair amount of batteries from friends, that their top end TP will no longer balance. I've also noticed that the numbers in many other chargers are not accurate and very. Even cheap DVOM's have accuracy issues. Wasn't till I started testing their accuracy with multiple calibrated Flukes I figured out some unanswered questions.

Happy charging


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[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by audacity

I totally agree that the fma is everything the icharger are. The ichargers seem to have come out with some of that tech first. ALL of the features between the two is splitting hairs.

Well that's not correct. FMA has been years ahead of iChargers since the Powerlabs came out and iCharger is still behind in many ways. Several years after the Powerlab's release iCharger finally caught in balancing power.

Sure the screen on the new iChargers is nice, but that's about where it ends. Several years after the Powerlabs came out the new iChargers now have a v1 of useable "presets". The preset implementation is still way behind where the Powerlabs were several years ago.

I hate its hard to lay out the facts of the products without someone feeling insulted. But they are the facts, not intended as a condemnation of anyone's choice.

[audacity]

O, I'm never offended by facts bro! More than totally fine!
My hands on experience ends with the cellpro's and not the powerlabs. All I could see in the specs is that the powerlabs are calibrated at the factory and set. One of the features the icharger had that attracted me to ichargers and the cost difference no doubt. I use 3010's and the price is hard to beat if your going to balance 5 2s packs. Before I made the change I was leaning toward powerlabs and epbuddy directed me towards the icharger. I think it was good advice. Hell I even use em to charge motorcycle,truck, and heavy equipment batteries around the house.


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