3GX setting for beginner rolls and flips

[sputnic6]

I wanted to confirm if these settings will cause me problems when trying my rolls/flips for a beginner or will they be ok. I want to start giving them a shot but want to make sure I'm setup ok with less agressive setting but still be ok to perform the maneuvers.

flight condition control - 50
collective pitch elev. precompensation - 70
cyclic ring - 70
cyclic pitch exponential setting - 0
elevator flip rate adjustment - 50
aileron roll rate adjustment - 50
collective pitch dampening - 50
cyclic pitch dampening - 50
cyclic pitch acceleration - 0

Thanks for any help

[Jon Sands]

everything looks good. Are you on 3.1? The stock "50" roll/flip rates are pretty darn tame, so good for a beginner.

However your cyclic and collective dampening are super high. Stock is 0, and only need to be increased if you're getting wobble or bounceback on hard stops. I think I have mine on 8 for collective, and 2 for cyclic

A sidenote, I recommend against keeping the "cyclic ring" on. It doesn't always work how you would expect it to. The proper way to be sure you're not getting binding is boot up your radio and heli, and hook it up to the software. Give it full negative collective, and full ail/elev all at the same time. then adjust the ail and elev "travel limits" in the software as high as you want as long as you don't get any binding. If its binding or touching something when you do this, lower them until it isn't. Do the same with positive collective as well, basically just give it max sticks in as many ways as you can and watch your swash and servo horns for binding. Remember: Travel limits are how far your swash is allowed to move, eg max cyclic allowed, and roll rates are how fast the 3gx will reach the end of that travel, eg how fast you will roll/flip

^ and don't do this in DIR mode. Dir mode limits how much your swash will move compared to normal flight. Just do it with a normally booted up 3gx

[sputnic6]

version 3.0. I've kept some of my settings in 2.1 as I like the tame feel for now.

[richord]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but on a similar note, I just upgraded from 2.1 to 3.1 and I love the stability but have no roll/flip rates anymore. There are so many setting options, I could spend days experimenting with...

The only thing I every changed in 2.1 and now in 3.1 is setting the expo to zero in the software so I could adjust it in the TX if I choose.

What would be some good settings to get the roll/flip rates back closer to stock 2.1 rates?

I found that in 2.1 it had the tendency to tilt backwards when doing several figure 8's with hard banks and then stopping to hover. I didn't see that tendency with 3.1 yet, but I wasn't really able to bank hard, because the heli wouldn't roll to the side like it used to.

[Jon Sands]

Originally Posted by richord

Sorry to hijack your thread, but on a similar note, I just upgraded from 2.1 to 3.1 and I love the stability but have no roll/flip rates anymore. There are so many setting options, I could spend days experimenting with...

The only thing I every changed in 2.1 and now in 3.1 is setting the expo to zero in the software so I could adjust it in the TX if I choose.

What would be some good settings to get the roll/flip rates back closer to stock 2.1 rates?

I found that in 2.1 it had the tendency to tilt backwards when doing several figure 8's with hard banks and then stopping to hover. I didn't see that tendency with 3.1 yet, but I wasn't really able to bank hard, because the heli wouldn't roll to the side like it used to.

You're right, the roll/flip rates are pretty tame stock with 3.1

Open up the software, and up the roll rate and flip rates - NOT the travel.

I upped mine ten points or so and It's starting to feel normal again. I think I'm gonna up them a bit more

[richord]

Originally Posted by Jon Sands

You're right, the roll/flip rates are pretty tame stock with 3.1

Open up the software, and up the roll rate and flip rates - NOT the travel.

I upped mine ten points or so and It's starting to feel normal again. I think I'm gonna up them a bit more

Cool. Thanks.

[sputnic6]

How about elevator and aileron endpoint set to 0 on 3gx. Will this cause any issues with trying rolls or flips?

[sputnic6]

Or, maybe I should say, what affect(s) does having a 0 value for ELV and ALE limit when DIR I have already setup +/- 12 collective and +/- 8 cyclic?

[sputnic6]

So what does the ELV and ALE limit actually do when you have a value other than 0 when in DIR I already have 8 degrees collective?

[jcwing123]

You can leave those pots at 0, and control your gain from your radio. I believe that the gain in your Swash AFR and the pots are the same thing. I figured this because I can increase the gain for ELV and ALE in my radio, and have a greater ability to roll or flip, or decrease the gain for greater stability.

I have my pots at 0 and I'm flying all over the place, hard banks, stall turns, pyros, you name it.

But again, my opinion is from a limited point of view since I'm fairly new to this, but I think I may be correct.

Hopefully

[Jon Sands]

noooo they are definitely not the same thing! Your swash mix controls how much travel gets outputted from the mixing on the radio, nothing to do with gain. I've flown with gains low before and it felt really bad, I can't imagine them at zero. I'd imagine it doesn't hold in wind/sharp sudden input well at all. I'd definitely crank them up to at least 10 o clock

[sputnic6]

Sorry guys, I was referring to the end point settings in the 3gx. I don't understand why they are needed when I already get 8 degrees cyclic in DIR.

[jcwing123]

Originally Posted by Jon Sands

noooo they are definitely not the same thing! Your swash mix controls how much travel gets outputted from the mixing on the radio, nothing to do with gain. I've flown with gains low before and it felt really bad, I can't imagine them at zero. I'd imagine it doesn't hold in wind/sharp sudden input well at all. I'd definitely crank them up to at least 10 o clock

Thanx for the input bro. I'll try setting the gains to 10.

[jcwing123]

So I adjusted my pot gains to 10... No deal. The heli was jumping around in a hover like no tomorrow. I could not hold a steady hover to save my life. Today the wind was blowing about 15 - 20 mph, and when I had the gains to zero, the heli held very well.

Not sure about the 10 oclock setting, but I'm taking mine back down to zero.

Thanx anyway man.

[Jon Sands]

You have a 450 right? Curious, how many holes out from the servo spline do you have your ball links for your cyclic to swash links?

10 o clock is pretty low already, seems you have a ton of mechanical gain somewhere. Should be the opposite. Proper amount of gain will keep it steady in the wind. Zero gain effectively kills the PID loop making the FBL controller near useless

[jcwing123]

Originally Posted by Jon Sands

You have a 450 right? Curious, how many holes out from the servo spline do you have your ball links for your cyclic to swash links?

10 o clock is pretty low already, seems you have a ton of mechanical gain somewhere. Should be the opposite. Proper amount of gain will keep it steady in the wind. Zero gain effectively kills the PID loop making the FBL controller near useless

Yep, a 450. I have my ball links on the very end of the servo arms on cyclic to swash. How should I have this set up then? I am new to FBL and this setup that I have worked well for my FB setup.

Any advice you can give me on setting this up the right way would be very much appreciated.

Thanx man...

[Jon Sands]

That's most likely way too far out! What servo arms are you using? The ball links should be at max 12.5mm out from the servo spline. Anymore and you're adding way too much mechanical gain, lowering the amount of servo travel used and therefore the available servo torque. Which means less accuracy all around.

I had a similar problem, I was getting horrible wobble on any hard stops. Couldn't do tic tocs or anything like them because of it. Turns out I had my ball links too far out. It would also sway and float in the wind as you described when I had the proper amount of gyro gain. It just didn't feel "locked in" at all really

Check this thread starting with post 8: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=525526

An easy way to eyeball the distance is at around 12.5mm, with the servo horns at 90 degrees, the swash to servo link should be straight up and down. not bowed out towards the end of the servo horn. It's amazing what moving them one hole in did for me. Warning, if this is your issue and you move them in a hole or 3, you'll need to completely redo the DIR setup on the 3gx, as you'll need to up your swash mix settings on your radio to get the desired pitch and cyclic range. Redo swash leveling and zero pitch and all that. That is a good thing though, you're gunna get way more accuracy and torque.

I hope that helps!

(I know the FBL setup is annoying, when I found all this out last night I spent all night redoing the entire setup to pinpoint accuracy, for the 4th or 5th time )

Worth it though, today it flew like a whole new machine

[jcwing123]

Originally Posted by Jon Sands

That's most likely way too far out! What servo arms are you using? The ball links should be at max 12.5mm out from the servo spline. Anymore and you're adding way too much mechanical gain, lowering the amount of servo travel used and therefore the available servo torque. Which means less accuracy all around.

I had a similar problem, I was getting horrible wobble on any hard stops. Couldn't do tic tocs or anything like them because of it. Turns out I had my ball links too far out. It would also sway and float in the wind as you described when I had the proper amount of gyro gain. It just didn't feel "locked in" at all really

Check this thread starting with post 8: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=525526

An easy way to eyeball the distance is at around 12.5mm, with the servo horns at 90 degrees, the swash to servo link should be straight up and down. not bowed out towards the end of the servo horn. It's amazing what moving them one hole in did for me. Warning, if this is your issue and you move them in a hole or 3, you'll need to completely redo the DIR setup on the 3gx, as you'll need to up your swash mix settings on your radio to get the desired pitch and cyclic range. Redo swash leveling and zero pitch and all that. That is a good thing though, you're gunna get way more accuracy and torque.

I hope that helps!

(I know the FBL setup is annoying, when I found all this out last night I spent all night redoing the entire setup to pinpoint accuracy, for the 4th or 5th time )

Worth it though, today it flew like a whole new machine

I do have wobble on hard stops. Thanx for the info brother. I'll do as you described and let you know the result in a few days.

Thanx again. Seriously..

[Jon Sands]

No problem dude! Anything I can do to share the happiness I felt when I finally fixed it

[jcwing123]

Originally Posted by Jon Sands

No problem dude! Anything I can do to share the happiness I felt when I finally fixed it

No sweat man. What you said made sense. I really do appreciate your help. I just read the thread on the link you gave and what is happening to me is exact.

Take care my brother and I'll let you know the result.