Used Protos plastic questions

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by sp00fman

Lol, €7,07 EUR shipped to my door for a set of 430mm blades.... guess im going to find out how these work.

Link ???? - you know I'm a cheapskate

[babyuh1]

I'm flying the Hobbyking $8 glassfiber/carbonfiber blades and they fly just like the SABs that came with the heli. I'm at 2700 rpm.

[sp00fman]

Ok, new blades fitted. Works just like it should. dont notice much difference they are glassfiber. smacks fine.

Got a new buddycode for the blades, the one i used expired. Shipping within NL is just $1.61.

link

[DoubleCH]

HobbyKing Pro3D blades are tip-weighted FBL blades. Usually a bit heavier than others and bog a little more than others. HobbyKing fiberglass are usually lighter and more responsive than others but not much more flexy if any. Revolution FB blades are very good quality and balanced blades at $15 from Horizon Hobby and probably everywhere carrying Horizon Hobby stuff (normally $60) and fly much more like FBL blades not FB blades (i.e. more stable more locked-in not hyper responsive).

[sp00fman]

The probable cause of the broken mainblade: the blade folded back by the quite sudden "slow"-spoolup. It jerks a bit when the motor first engaged. I think i was too far off 0-pitch and the forces on the folded blade made it snap near the root.


The jerky spoolup is still there, but i run the blades a bit tighter and make sure to spool up at neutral pitch.

I like my new fiberglass blades a lot. Its very snappy on cyclic and has good pop.

[DoubleCH]

HobbyKing fiberglass blades used to be my favorite for my 450DFC. I've flown a pair for 1-200 flights. Love the lightweight and response. However, they snapped at root one time when I switched to idle2 during stable hover. One blade shot straight out causing obvious imbalance and shot the other one out as well. The blades had never had even a tipover or nick before. I just don't trust fiberglass blades any more.

[dr dremel]

Guess these GF blades are hit and miss then. I had a pair in a spare parts stash I acquired and they were absolute rubbish. Despite balancing well they were loud, had unrefined feeling on the sticks and cost me 30sec of flight time. 3D Pros were much better, in fact better than the Edge I fly right now.

[Carpetbombing]

Originally Posted by sp00fman

Ok guys, static problem resolved without any external wiring nor spending a dime

Still had some copper tape from bulding night blades, so i made the boom clamp conductive. I have conductivity from thatshaft to motor pinion now.


Spools up with tailblades without excessive vibration or binding of the tail the slider. Its time to pick my tailservo and gyro.

Will go with the mini-sized HK-732MG Coreless Digital MG/BB Servo 28g / 3.5kg / 0.07s

have to decide on the Tarot ZYX or the X-bar gyro..... hard choice here, i know the Tarot inside and out and will be able to tune it with two flights with my cellphone. The Bar is almost untested and needs the computer at home. It does have better features and the potential to get it dialed in better (confirmed better piro-consistency comparing to tarot)


On with the photos :

sp00fman: that copper foil tape is brilliant. I found some that's 5mm wide on ebay for around $5 shipped. It's PERFECT - adds essentially no weight, and is easy to solder onto. I used super thin wire from an old phone cable used to plug your corded phone into the wall jack (also essentially weightless) directly from one of the motor mounting screws to the tail case / tail shaft bearing using your copper foil technique.

THANK YOU!

[sp00fman]

Udate time on the Protos500. I had a break from flying heli's but am back.

The Protos still had an issue. When loading up the disk with a collective punchout or fast flip with a little collective the belt teeth would skip somewhere and the tail jerks. Awefull noise.
Needless to say this kills my confidence in flying the heli and i know i should not fly with such a known problem.

Reduced max collective a bit at first but did not really help. Tightening the belt did not really help untill VERY tight, and i dont wish to run it like a guitar string. It was not really solving the cause anyway and already had to replace the motor bearings again.

This week i made a custom 3rd motor bearing support, and shimmed the belt-roller on the motor side (made a 2mm shim that goes between the frame and the roller holder)

The custom support only added 6 grams (bearing+screws included) and uses the same size bearing as the top motor one. This should take care of the probable flexing of the motor adapter or shaft.

Set up the belt tension on the tail side by attempting to make a few teeth skip when rotating the tail by hand and holding the motor still. Got it to the point it is barely tight enough to make the belt almost unable to skip with quite a bit of force on the tailrotor..

Test flight proved i fixed the problem! no more belt skipping. this heli feels very powerful now. Better lipo's also help here. Running the Turnigy 2650mAh 6S 40C now as all my Nanotech packs just died for no reason.

Included a picture of the setup. the support is made by laminating carbon fiber cloth in shape.

Can't wait for the weather to clear up so i can fly it some more!

[dr dremel]

Nice custom work and problem solving!

Are you running the smaller pinions/shaft (<15T)? And how do you adjust belt tension with the suppport?

I did not have any belt skip problems yet, but the motor shaft for the 14T pinions does look a bit wimpy.

[sp00fman]

This motor has the big pinion adapter installed. I run a 15 or 16T pinion...i forgot. I elongated the holes in the plastic frame slightly so it can shift about 2mm. I dont need the whole range of possible motor positions as i already knew where i wanted to have it placed.

one note, it is very difficult to get the bracket in position on the plastic frame. Lots of fiddling, not like a carbon framed one where it just slides in place,


Had 4 hard flights yesterday and on one instance heard a short belt skipping noise. I have the front belt side quite loose now so will tighten it slightly for the next try. I did give it quite a beating, but i intend to do some harder moves next round..

See how it goes. Ordered spare main blade holders just in case

[dr dremel]

OK I see and you´re right, not much "travel" needed to get correct tension.

I figured the challenge would be the correct perpendicular position of the support. IIRC the original stretch kits came wth a template for drilling holes.

[DoubleCH]

Interesting fabrication work consider I hate the stock 3rd bearing support so much I would do anything to lose it for stretch use (4mm motor shaft/adapter for 13/14T) while you add it for non-stretch use (6mm shaft adapter for 15T+).. I manage it to lose it by using solid steel 13T pinion with 6mm bore, perfect to run stock 6mm adapter designed for 15T+ pinion. Solid steel also means no more OWB slip problem and no more soft aluminum tooth wearing out problem (which you'll find in your case eventually when you have to tighten belt tension to solve your belt slip problem).

Your 2mm-shim mod on the idler pulley is smart to improve belt grip on the pinion by making the idler closer to the pinion and make belt wrap around the pinion more. In my case, my double-idler mod improves belt grip on the pinion way much more because the belt wraps around the pinion not just a few more degrees from stock's 180 degrees (in your case) but way much more to about 270 degrees. Also with the 2nd idler the belt has to go around more bends and that means motor has to sit all the way back almost touching the 2 idlers (I elongated the motor mount slots on the frame to achieve that). I can run zero tension with 13T pinion and the belt won't slip under the heaviest load, thus reducing friction and improving belt system wear (1 belt last 600+ flights, and of course solid steel pinion last 800+ flights, and I'm still on original motor bearings way past 2000+ flights).

[sp00fman]

If the pinion would wear i would flip the oneway bearing inside so i can use the fresh side of the pinion tooth. Essentially a free extra pinion

[DoubleCH]

Pinion wear is small part of the problem. OWB slip, 4mm shaft wearing out and/or bent, 3rd motor shaft bearing burnt out are all reality if you fly hard. Besides, flipping the pinion means you need to drive out the OWBs and flip them also.After all that work, in less than 50 flights, the pinion is still done. Not work the effort IMO. Solid steel pinion and double-idler mod and never look back.

[sp00fman]

Update time,
The belt teeth skipping problem was still not completely resolved as it still did it in a punch out added with some cyclic.
Think i have solved it now by adjusting the YEP Gov gains to a higher value instead of decreasing it as i was attempting before.
Seems the gov was lagging behind so much when the motor was loaded it eventually wanted to spool back up again quickly and really torque the hell out of the drivetrain.
With the higher gains i had to reduce the tailgain a bit as it started a wag-o-death with the higher headspeed, but all is fine now.
Really smacked the heli around today and nop more belt teeth skipping noise!
Finally i am about as confident in this heli as i have been with the miniP for a long time.

[sp00fman]

4 more flights on the Protos today. still holding strong. only bogged it down once when i was doing FFF upwing then punched out with near full collective and cyclic. Seemed it really dropped a lot of headspeed for an instance.

Had the main head gains on Vbar a bit lower than yesterday as i noticed the heli porpoising in forward flight, but it is still there and upsetting my flights. it needs solving. In hover and 3d there are no oddities.

Not sure where to start looking for a fix for the porpoising. Using the Lynx ultra dampners (solid plastic) so it can't be worn dampners. Will check again if they are shimmed properly to pre load the main grip bearings.
V-bar log shows only a few instances of high vibration warning, otherwise just raised warnings.
Guess i run the V-bar setup again and check it's cyclic throws, check for vibrations on the bench, and try another set of main blades.
Should shoot a video also, the audio can give confirmation that headspeed is constant when viewed on a spectrum analyzer (audiocatalyst program)

Nearly there.... getting close to finishing the build


sorry for using this topic for some kind of build log / checklist. i sometimes forget where i'm at because of multiple hobby projects.

[babyuh1]

I had the same problem with a Robird on my P500 and I just backed off of the elevator setting until it stopped.

[DoubleCH]

Forget the Lynx dampers. Use MSH red hard 3D dampers. Much better. Almost as hard as Align DFC dampers but with zero slop. I mean like if you don't lube the dampers you'll think they don't fit.

Propoising is a good indication of too high cyclic gain and/or too much slop/bind. Maybe play with elev precomp in the swash section if you feel the porpoising is elevator triggered.

[sp00fman]

Im pretty happy with the cyclic feel with the lynx dampeners.
Will the MSH red dampners fix the porpoising?