START HERE |
|
Register | FAQ | PM | Events | Groups | Blogs | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
Unregistered
|
Scale Helicopters Discussions About Scale Helis, compatibility and and projects |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
06-18-2014, 11:05 AM | #1 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Join Date: Nov 2010
|
Issues with tail authority
Hi guys,
I know this might seem llike a dumb question, but should you be flying scale in the wind? I would think flying in anything over 5-10 Mph would be unacceptable, especially with bulky fuselages. If the plane guys aren't flying then maybe that should be my key that I shouldn't be flying my scale? I also fly 3D, but wind has never really been a problem because of the high head speed. Lower head speeds, I would think fighting the wind would be a lot more difficult. When using the tail, I like a good crisp stop...but with Scale, it seems its difficult to get that and it requires a lot of tweaking etc.. ..Also, on at least two scale machines, the tails seem to not be as responsive as I would like..They are both raised tails, they do weigh a good amount with the 2 5000's they have in them... The reason i ask is I am trying to determine if I have a setup problem, if it was too windy, or a combination of "get used to it", setup issues and wind. I was testing a a 600 sized Jayhawk scale heli, about 15 pounds. I was flying zig-zag patterns left to right and right to left, close to the ground, using my tail a lot, and sometimes the wind would be blowing on the side of the heli. The wind was gusty at times, but I didn't think it was that windy during my test flight. Several times the tail would just like move itself to the right (nose left) and be unresponsive to right rudder for a second or so, like it over shot the rudder input I was giving it...I can't remember if I had given a lot of collective or what, but at least once it seemed to weather vein into the wind almost. It wasn't a kick like you'd get with a pitch pump, but more of a decisive move to nose left where I had no control over it.Then it was unresponsive a second or so to right rudder to get the nose moving right again. Just a little scary for a second, but in all cases it did recover and the tail would go back to being nice and responsive. I am flying in HH mode...Should I be flying in Rate mode? I had made some changes to the set up of this model where I changed my Zero pitch such it was no longer at mid stick, but at Level 1 on the TX pitch curve menu now .. but with Vbar, in the advanced tail section, you're supposed to set your TX at zero degrees for that scale model and click the Zero Pitch button for precomp to work correctly...which I did not do. So, I am wondering if this created a larger part of my problem. I am trying to figure out if the wind was just too much or if by not setting Zero Pitch, if precomp wasn't working properly and what I saw was not necessarily the tail rotor not being able to fight the wind, but more that precomp wasn't working correctly...Most of the time the tail was quite responsive and worked well, but then this would unexpectedly happen, and it was always tail moving to the right. I didn't see it move to the left without me telling it too. I can't recall if I gave a large collective pump or what i did at the time though. I'm going to test again later today after having made those changes and see... What do you guys think? It's a Trex 600 in a jay hawk fuse, using CW 600mm Mains with 700 sized 115mm tail blades.. You would think tail authority with those larger tail blades wouldn't be an issue.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRex 450L, TRex 500 EFL, TRex 600 EFL, Synergy E7/SE, AS350, Bell 222, Bell 206, Jayhawk, Tiger EC-665, Vbar, Beastx |
Sponsored Links | |||
Advertisement |
|
06-18-2014, 11:56 AM | #2 (permalink) |
Join Date: Jul 2010
|
Sounds like you could stand to speed up the tail by installing a Thunder Tiger Raptor 8t pulley on the tail shaft.
Of couse this will only work if you are running a belt driven tail and not a TT. If your interested here is how I did it. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1632 |
06-18-2014, 06:35 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
|
Well...I figured out what was wrong....The loud clunk and the sudden piro while testing gave it away..I guess the thought of something mechanical going out had not occurred to me because I made some setup changes when the problem started which led me to believe it was the setup and that it needed some tweaking.... Anyway, I managed to get it on the ground safely without any damage....I'll figure out what went wrong and fix it then test it some more outside of the fuse.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRex 450L, TRex 500 EFL, TRex 600 EFL, Synergy E7/SE, AS350, Bell 222, Bell 206, Jayhawk, Tiger EC-665, Vbar, Beastx Last edited by erospawn; 06-19-2014 at 06:28 AM.. |
06-19-2014, 04:35 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Registered Users
|
Sounds like your tail control is not rigid enough, sounds like you're having some flexing going on.
__________________
When the wife asks "How many helicopters do you need?" The answer is always "Just one more!" |
06-19-2014, 10:39 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
for a 600 size fuselage...i would fix up a 690mm blade to compensate the weight , heli would be easier to control
running on HV servo, so the servo can take the load of a 700mm blade without heating up the servos i have a eurocopter tiger 600size roban...i am using a 700mm Edge blade and it handles like a 3D machine.. super stable even with strong wind.. problem is with 600 size, the head is 12mm only..so only Radix or Edge blade able to support. Align is 14mm root |
06-19-2014, 11:41 AM | #6 (permalink) | |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
|
Quote:
Yeah, I've got a 600 sized Roban Tiger as well. I'm running 600mm Fiber Glass blades on a Quad head.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRex 450L, TRex 500 EFL, TRex 600 EFL, Synergy E7/SE, AS350, Bell 222, Bell 206, Jayhawk, Tiger EC-665, Vbar, Beastx |
|
06-19-2014, 01:06 PM | #7 (permalink) | |
Join Date: Jul 2010
|
Quote:
Just wondering , how do you fit 700mm blades on a 600 size fuselage without cutting the tail off. There is no way I can get 700mm blades on eather one of my 600's without chopping off the tail . Now my 700 helis I can fit up to 720mm blades without interferring with the tail. Just wondering how you get that to work. |
|
06-19-2014, 04:13 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
|
The Jayhawk and Tiger both have raised tails and they slant back a good 5 inches or more..so I think it's possible to run blades that are slightly longer.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRex 450L, TRex 500 EFL, TRex 600 EFL, Synergy E7/SE, AS350, Bell 222, Bell 206, Jayhawk, Tiger EC-665, Vbar, Beastx |
06-20-2014, 12:33 PM | #9 (permalink) |
Join Date: Jul 2010
|
I have several helis with raised tail ( UH-1 and AH-1 both 600's) as well and although you may be able to run a slightly larger (ei. 600 size heli may be able to run up to a 620mm blade ) you certainly could not run 700mm blades on any of my 600 size helis with raised tail.
Unless you want the mains interferring with the tail blades. |
06-20-2014, 12:55 PM | #10 (permalink) |
Registered Users
|
You're having tail authority issues, and you want to increase the size of the main rotor blades?
The added weight and size, of the larger rotor blades, will increase the amount of torque and centrifugal force that the tail will have to counter against.
__________________
When the wife asks "How many helicopters do you need?" The answer is always "Just one more!" |
06-20-2014, 09:11 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
Quote:
It will gv u another satisfaction and more stable scale.. Jus my opinion |
|
06-21-2014, 07:54 AM | #12 (permalink) |
Join Date: Jul 2010
|
No thinks , I'll stick with the correct size blades that all my models are ment to have on them , they just look better that way.
As for stablity and less twitchy , those two problems are corrected by the proper setup both to the swash and the head and inthe correct setup of a high quality FBL unit. All of my scale helis pretty much can be hovered in mild winds (3-5 mph) hands-off with the correct blade sizes on them. And as BT said if you are having tail authority problems the last thing one wants to do is to add more weight and torque to compound that problem. Just my opinion. |
06-21-2014, 10:37 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
Some pics for references only.. No worries mate
Will try this spin blade 710mm scale for my super scale cobra soon Last edited by keong; 06-21-2014 at 10:09 PM.. |
06-21-2014, 12:52 PM | #14 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
|
Keong is right.. The only time you need to worry about running longer blades is with hard 3D because you run the risk of the tail boom flexing or the mains flexing in a hard move, and then the tail blades might touch the main blades...but you aren't doing any hard 3d moves with a scale and there is zero chance a fiber glass tail is going to flex like that in normal flying..Doubtful you'll get any extended flexing in the blades either.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRex 450L, TRex 500 EFL, TRex 600 EFL, Synergy E7/SE, AS350, Bell 222, Bell 206, Jayhawk, Tiger EC-665, Vbar, Beastx |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|