Kosmik 160A on XXTreme - Use Those Toroidal Cores!!

[snipealot]

I just swapped out my YGE 160 XXTreme ESC in favor of a Kosmik 160A, went to the field to test it out yesterday and while spooling up the heli did all kinds of crazy things, tail kicked out 180 degrees and it wanted to tip over!!!

Checked the Vbar log and noticed all kinds of error messages , "Sensor Data Checksum Error", "Sensor Connection broken", "Satellite Data out of Synchronization", Aileron/Elevator Sensor Value out of range" etc.,etc., it was a very nasty event log full of errors...

I always remove the Toroids because I was always told they were not needed for 2.4GHZ...wrong...added the Toroidal cores back on the BEC cables and all is well.

So from now on I will be leaving them on my Kontronik ESC's.

[malc1]

I thought the same regarding 2.4Ghz - I'll be leaving mine on I think.

[czynot]

Dont hurt to leave it on.

[Mercuriell]

Ignore the manual at your own risk! KT state very clearly not to remove the toroids in the Kosmik manual. Also good practice to keep esc-motor wires as far away from flight electronics as possible.

Interesting report though!

[snipealot]

Originally Posted by Mercuriell

Ignore the manual at your own risk! KT state very clearly not to remove the toroids in the Kosmik manual. Also good practice to keep esc-motor wires as far away from flight electronics as possible.

Interesting report though!

Yeah..guilty as charged ...ignored the manual because every Jive ESC I had I always removed the toroid from the bec cable to make it long enough.

[Mercuriell]

Originally Posted by snipealot

Yeah..guilty as charged ...ignored the manual because every Jive ESC I had I always removed the toroid from the bec cable to make it long enough.

I have sometimes too and gotten away with it on the Jive ! Maybe the Kosmik more RFI, lot of electronic real estate in that red lunch box!

[whytlotus]

I just finished up my Kosmik/Pyro install today. I make my own bec wires and put the cores where convenient. Here's where I put mine. There's already a hole in the frame so one on each side.

[snipealot]

Originally Posted by whytlotus

I just finished up my Kosmik/Pyro install today. I make my own bec wires and put the cores where convenient. Here's where I put mine. There's already a hole in the frame so one on each side.

Nice mounting bracket for the Kosmik!! How much $$ to make one for me lol...

[whytlotus]

Originally Posted by snipealot

Nice mounting bracket for the Kosmik!! How much $$ to make one for me lol...

They weren't that hard to make, just a lot of hand work, a grinder, some files, hack saw and drill press. I got the stock in the hardware section at my local home Depot. 8 ft. for ten bucks. Cut 2 lengths about 4 3/4". I think the frame holes were 58mm on center. Had to use a round file to get exact fit, but the bolt cups hide any sins... 8ft seemed like a lot to buy, but it took two sets to get what I wanted. Far from perfect, but rock solid, light and functional.

[Steve1712]

Originally Posted by whytlotus

I just finished up my Kosmik/Pyro install today. I make my own bec wires and put the cores where convenient. Here's where I put mine. There's already a hole in the frame so one on each side.

Hello,
2 Things... I wouldn't bend the Motor wiries this Way!! We had a couple of pyros (700) Where the wires broke After bending this way! Not instantly but After Time! So maybe you should shorten the wires and make it strait.... Just an idea or Info..

2nd: i fly a Kosmik too (200a) and i removed it... And have noroblems at all! I talked to a kontronic technican at heli Masters in Germany... He told me the recommend it because it helps to Lower the emvoltage... That can couses Problems... But in this Case i think e Problem is elsewhere to search... We had pretty much Problems on a powercroco Motor and vbar AND Spektrum too, Same errors in the vbar .... Tried everThing.... Also Sent back the Kosmik... They fou d no error... Got bqck same error again...

In he Moment of spoolup e Log gets filled with all Kind of Strange errors!
Also in flight there Where several pitch Pumps of the heli because od the error!!

One Thing we found Out the errors goes away when just conecting the Master bec cable... Then there Where no errors anymore!! Instntly After connecting the Slave the errors came back!

It Looks like that this has something to do with a ripple voltage that the Spektrum satelites didn't like!
We found no solution yet! In the problematic heli we are now back on Jive! And no Problems anymore!

In my 7hv with graupner hott receiver and also vbar i hadn't not One error or Problem that was coming from Kosmik!!!

[snipealot]

Originally Posted by Steve1712

In he Moment of spoolup e Log gets filled with all Kind of Strange errors!

During my bench testing of spooling up with no blades, my findings were consistent with what you described here, without the toroids on the bec cables the log gets filled with all of these errors, when I added the toroids back the errors went away. However I have not yet had a chance to do any in- flight testing.

[ahahn]

Originally Posted by Steve1712

Hello,
.....<snip>.......

One Thing we found Out the errors goes away when just conecting the Master bec cable... Then there Where no errors anymore!! Instntly After connecting the Slave the errors came back!

It Looks like that this has something to do with a ripple voltage that the Spektrum satelites didn't like!
We found no solution yet! In the problematic heli we are now back on Jive!

Sounds like a classic case of a ground loop. Whenever you have two wires that form a continuous loop, then if you put a time varying magnetic flux through the loop, you will generate a current. Now add lousy resistive connections ( the standard RC servo connector!), and that current will now generate little voltage spikes.

This will also happen on the power wires too.

Basic solution is the ferrite core, which will suppress common mode current fluctuations, or trying to reduce the area of the loop, by running the common wires as close to each other as possible. Also keeping these wires as far away from alternating magnetic flux sources as possible. The real solution is to have no loops-- a single wire. However those lousy RC connectors makes this problematic if your servos are power hungry!

So I say keep those two BEC wires as close together as possible, and away from the motor, motor wires, and battery wires, all of which are sources of high frequency magnetic fields.

[Steve1712]

Hello,
as you maybe can imagine we have tried everything! really everthing... also with toroids. but that changed nothing... still had the vbar error logs and also the cyclic and pitch twitches, sometimes not instantly... the log indeed was starting erroring imediatly after spoolup of motor! so we also changend cabeling, changed the vbar too... nothing helped...

the thing is with the jive the bec cabels without the toroids works flawlessly! so my buddy decided to go back to the jive... and then i got his kosmik and i didn't have any problems without the toroids... so i'm pretty sure that this also depends on the transmission system (and maybe the hardware..) but i will try the kosmik as soon as i get my banshee in this mechanic with HV Servos and also without the toroids... i don't expect any problems there as well...

its the same with the fuse of the kosmik... kontronik says you should use it... its for saftey but not absolutly necessary... but if you electrical short something when connecting it will safe the kosmik...

so the toroids didn't harm anything and helps! but it can work also without!! i think if you don't have anyproblems without than don't think about it... if you have problems you can try to use toroids... maybe it will help.. but it doesn't help everytime!

[Magneto]

I didnt have any toroids on my master and slave for my jive and during bench testing with the kosmik I had errors in my vbar log , as soon as I changed out the new cables with the toroids it went away so I disagree with the last poster and can say that they are absolutely nessecery.

[snipealot]

Originally Posted by Magneto

I didnt have any toroids on my master and slave for my jive and during bench testing with the kosmik I had errors in my vbar log , as soon as I changed out the new cables with the toroids it went away so I disagree with the last poster and can say that they are absolutely nessecery.

+1

As soon as I replaced the cables with the ones that have the toroids all of my issues went away, and I tested this extensively on the bench. The manual directly states that you MUST use the toroids, I ignored that and it almost caused a mishap.

[ManilaIce]

I have a jive 100lv. Using a master and slave cable for a logo. Does it matter where i place the ferrite ring - meaning that i have it placed right now near the end (connector side) of the wire vs just after the esc as most people have it? Thanks.

[Mercuriell]

Doesnt matter where you place it, put it where it's least prominent

[robbarnes1098]

I have also replaced the YGE with a 160 Kosmik and have a tail wag at any head speed which is annoying there are also another two friends of mine who have the same problem too with identical set ups !
I chose not to run the rings could this be cuasing the problem I cant speak for my friends t the moment but Im clutching at straws to resolve the issue !

[robbarnes1098]

Heres mine mounted up front !

http://www.modelhelicopters.co.uk/te...ik-kosmik-160/

[KONTRONIK]

Yes, please run WITH the torodial core on the cable.


Quote from the supplied manual.

"4.4 Torodial core
The ex factory mounted torodial core on the receiver cable allows suppression of interference. It must not be removed from the cable for security reasons but it can be moved if necessary within the cable."