CCW slow circuits

[feathering]

Having trouble with upright forward slow CCW circuits with a nano-sized helicopter. On the field I can do both CW and CCW circuits but they are fast and wide. At home, however, in a space of approximately 4x4m I am unable to keep the heli in a CCW circle.

I think the "problem" is the fact that the helicopter is tilted to the right in stable hover to compensate for the horizontal force exerted by the tail. This attitude leads to left and forward drifting as soon as I start a CW turn which I find easy to control by applying a bit of right and aft cyclic. But CCW turns lead to a backwards drift which I struggle to control within the turn: it would either exit the turn if I don't apply enough cyclic or speed up into the turn too fast for me control it in the room if I overdo cyclic.

Approaching my100th flight with my first cp heli flying at the park and at home and I have never been able to do a slow CCW circuit at home... Any advice?

[cquillen]

It's normal for ccw to be harder. It's due to how the tail works just like you said.

If you can do them big you can do them small. Just got to train the fingers more. Try gradually making the circuits smaller outside until you get them small enough for inside.

Practice practice practice. You'll get it.

[cquillen]

Also make sure you've got a bit of forward momentum before starting the turn.

[Theunisjr]

I had the same problem. I Just kept on working at it. And got much better.

Now it is my CW backwards circles...

[Bee_random]

My 2c. I don't believe any direction or orientation is harder than another. I'd encourage others to believe the same, they all just need work and lots of practice. As soon as somebody says a move is harder in a particular direction, it's too easy for others to believe that and fear it - the truth is that they are just better at one and therefore favour it.

A common experience is for one quadrant (usually furthest away) is harder to master than the others. Consistently the answer is to use a little more rudder and bank less. Then control the speed with pitch. Practice this and soon the control will come.

I hope this helps. Practice practice practice and it will come to you. - this applies to all moves. B

[LubeMan1]

Now see, I have a problem with CW circles on both the Nano and my 6HV. They just aren't as natural as CCW, for me I think its more of a thumb issue that anything pulling the sticks as opposed to pushing the stick I think.

[feathering]

Originally Posted by cquillen

Try gradually making the circuits smaller outside until you get them small enough for inside.

Will give this a try. I normally start indoor circuits with little momentum given the size constraint while trying to keep the turn slow and controlled. But, as you said, perhaps I should work my way from big to small given that I can do big somewhat.

[feathering]

Originally Posted by Bee_random

My 2c. I don't believe any direction or orientation is harder than another.

On the sim I would definitely agree with you. The sim does a great job of revealing weaknesses and pilot preferences. IRL and indoors, however, the helicopter asymmetries are an integral part of my flying. Perhaps it has to do with heli size (600 on sim, 80 IRL) but in a small room I am overwhelmed by all these idiosyncrasies which I hardly notice on the sim.

Originally Posted by Bee_random

A common experience is for one quadrant (usually furthest away) is harder to master than the others. Consistently the answer is to use a little more rudder and bank less.

I definitely agree with this particularly for slow circuits.

[Bee_random]

Originally Posted by feathering

On the sim I would definitely agree with you. The sim does a great job of revealing weaknesses and pilot preferences. IRL and indoors, however, the helicopter asymmetries are an integral part of my flying. Perhaps it has to do with heli size (600 on sim, 80 IRL) but in a small room I am overwhelmed by all these idiosyncrasies which I hardly notice on the sim.

If your comparing a 600 size setup to micro (I assume 80 I'd the blade length you're referring to). The micro will be very much harder, as it has significantly less inertial stability. I guess the analogy to my point is flying in wind vs. dead calm. One is technically easier at first, but with practice a little wind doesn't make much difference as we learn to compensate as a reflex.

Obviously this analogy doesn't go for micros where wind plays a much bigger factor.

[gstoneberg]

Originally Posted by feathering

On the sim I would definitely agree with you. The sim does a great job of revealing weaknesses and pilot preferences. IRL and indoors, however, the helicopter asymmetries are an integral part of my flying. Perhaps it has to do with heli size (600 on sim, 80 IRL) but in a small room I am overwhelmed by all these idiosyncrasies which I hardly notice on the sim.

To get the feel of flying indoors in a simulator with the 600, fly in the gym/sport hall. You will instantly find the same issues exist on the large heli. Flying outdoors, whether IRL or using the sim, things seem smoother and easier because we're not forced to stay in a specific area. Introduce boundaries outside (or inside) and it gets much harder.

[Steve Graham]

Slow flight takes a much more refined touch on all controls than zipping around at high speed where you can pretty much fly it like an airplane without carefully controlling collective. In slow circuits flying in a wind at all you will find the collective requirements in a state of constant flux because you are varying your airspeed to maintain a constant groundspeed and circuit radius and this causes you to move into and out of the region that translational lift begins to affect the machine. You may have to drive the heli upwind and actually come almost to a hover downwind allowing the wind to carry the heli through that portion of the circuit.

Keep at it because mastery of slow flight is a fundamental skill neglected by many pilots and you can see it clearly affecting their flying and overall mastery of the machine. There's a reason that a large portion F3C competition is fundamental hover/slow flight. This stuff be hard

[feathering]

Originally Posted by Bee_random

If your comparing a 600 size setup to micro (I assume 80 I'd the blade length you're referring to).

To be honest I am not sure what 80 stands for but it is a Hisky hcp80, slightly smaller than a nano cpx.

Originally Posted by Bee_random

The micro will be very much harder, as it has significantly less inertial stability. I guess the analogy to my point is flying in wind vs. dead calm. One is technically easier at first, but with practice a little wind doesn't make much difference as we learn to compensate as a reflex.

Great analogy. Wind affects helis differently but good cyclic management can compensate for it regardless of heli size.

[feathering]

Originally Posted by gstoneberg

To get the feel of flying indoors in a simulator with the 600, fly in the gym/sport hall. You will instantly find the same issues exist on the large heli.

Haven't used the sim for some time (perhaps because the logo 600 I sim with doesn't feel anything like my crazy little heli). But I am keen to get back to it so I will definitely give this a try.

[feathering]

Originally Posted by Steve Graham

Slow flight takes a much more refined touch on all controls than zipping around at high speed where you can pretty much fly it like an airplane without carefully controlling collective

Never knew that flying at home would feel so different than flying at the park. For example, at the park I normally apply a stick input, observe heli response and then apply another input accordingly and so on. But at home every stick input seems to go in pairs: I apply an input then the corresponding cancelling input and then I observe the heli. Otherwise I just don't have time to correct. Crashes are much worse than outdoors but flying indoors is very pedagogical